Saturday, September 6, 2008

Is Jack an Abuser?

Domestic abuse.

No one wants to talk about it. No one wants to tackle it head on.
And yet it seems to be a core theme in Kate's ongoing storyline on Lost.

Why not talk about it? Well, it's one of those hot button issues like abortion, racism, suicide and sanctioned torture. Try to discuss such topics with regard to a TV show and you're bound to get someone swooping in on their high horse of moral superiority claiming to speak for everybody else and attempting to shut down all dialogue with a few choice expletives.

Apparently raising awareness and trying to alert young women to some of the hallmark signs of potential domestic abuse by using a fictional character has no redeeming value. Apparently you have to have experienced it first hand and have the scars to prove it and out yourself in a public forum before you can offer up your opinions on the subject. Apparently no one is allowed to call a spade a spade without a certain contingent of fans getting their frilly panties in an outraged twist. Or in this case calling a controlling potentially abusive jerk of a character exactly what he is.

A controlling potentially abusive jerk.

I've been reading the recent comments being bandied about and brandished by various posters and my honest opinion?

It is a bit over the top to call the Jate crap abuse. It didn't last long enough to be truly abusive. But it's sick behavior with abusive tendencies, that would lead to abuse were it to continue. The point isn't that it's necessarily abusive behavior NOW. The point is that it's the total opposite of loving behavior. The big disconnect is in trying to pretend that this is a great love story. It's like saying Jack's alcoholism shows that he'd be a fun guy to party with.

It's the taking of such an unhealthy dynamic and trying to sell it as a true romance that is sticking in many people's craws.

So let's look at this infamous article that LostTVFan originally posted. Does it have merit as a checklist for Jack's more troubling behaviors? I think it does. Does Jack exhibit all of these all of the time and only with Kate? No. For instance, have we seen Jack physically strike Kate? Of course not. But you don’t have to have every single sign in order for there to be a tendency toward the problem. So what do we see in Jack?

Quick involvement
Many abused women dated or knew their abuser less than six months before they became engaged or began living together. He needs someone desperately and pressures you to commit to him. Unused to men's wanting commitment, many women believe that this is a sign of his love.

Jaters claim that Jack fell in love with Kate when she stitched him up in the Pilot. How long had they known each other? A good five minutes. Just a few days later, he is pressuring her to move to the caves with him. Hell, he assumes she is going to and get the rest of the Losties to go along until she says, “You haven’t convinced ME yet!” Pressuring for a commitment early in a relationship? Check.

Rigid sex roles
He sees women as inferior to men, more stupid, unable to be a whole person without a relationship. He expects you to obey him, to serve him, to stay home.

"No, you can’t come with us."
"No, you can’t have a gun."
"Go back, Kate."
"What are you doing here, Kate?"
"We’re done here."
"I told you not to come back for me and I wish you hadn’t."

Since when has Jack ever NOT expected Kate to obey him?
And check out her pantless, frilly gussied up version of herself in SNBH which is in stark contrast to her usual functional, simple almost tomboyish get up she wears on island and post SNBH.

Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde
He has "sudden" changes in mood. One minute he's nice, the next minute he explodes. Anything can set him off on a rampage.

Let us revisit the Glass Wall scene. Jack’s all smiles and sweetness until Sawyer’s name come up and then the veins begin to bulge and the shouting begins. Or how about his suddenly throwing the papers at Juliet? Sudden mood changes. Check again.

Blames others for his problems
Almost anything that goes wrong in his life is someone else's fault. He makes mistakes and blames you. Almost anything that goes wrong is your fault.

Whoo, boy howdy. Let’s see. It’s Kate’s fault that he didn’t get to go home on the sub, even though it was Locke who blew it up. It’s Sawyer’s fault that Shannon is suffocating even though Jack was too busy condoning torture to look for an alternative treatment like Sun did. He even blamed his father as a contributing factor to the failure of his marriage and practically every other shortcoming under the sun. Mr. Shift the Blame in action yet one more time.

Blames others for his feelings
When he becomes angry and abusive it's because "You made me mad. You're hurting me by not doing what I ask. I can't help being angry."

Kate in handcuffs, being left at the hands of murderous others and what does Jack say, “I told you not to come back and I wish you hadn’t.” Yep, his feelings are hurt and it’s all your fault, Kate. All. YOUR. Fault. You slept with the crusty hillbilly. Or moving won't tell me what you are doing for that good for nothing con man and that's making me mad so I have the right to yell at you.

Poor or negative self-image
Research has found that abusers have lower self-esteem and masculinity scores than other men tested. One researcher calls this a "failed macho complex." These men appear to over-compensate for what they see as their failure to live up to the masculine stereotype.

Even Jaters admit that Jack has low self-esteem. He has blown his father's talk about not handling failure into a consuming need to prove that he has what it takes. Fear that his father was right, and that he's not the big hero he's trying to be, makes him lash out and punish others. Another point on the list.

Verbal abuse
He says cruel and hurtful things. He implies you are stupid and unable to function without him.

Cutting off a conversation with “We’re done here” is the epitome of gentility in my book. It’s the best way to end a conversation with everyone feeling validated and affirmed, right? But just for good measure, how about “I’m the one who saved you” or “He’s not even related to you” or …"I'm not a murderer." Cruel and hurtful? Yeah, in my book.

He's constantly suspicious of any contact you have with other men at work or in social situations. He questions you about who you talk to, as his jealousy and possessiveness increase, he may call you frequently or drop by unexpectedly to check on you. He may refuse to let you work for fear you'll meet someone else, or even check your car mileage or ask friends to watch you.

Shall we revisit the stalking of Sarah or of Achara? What about demanding who Kate was talking to on the phone? What about his arriving unexpectedly home early, to check up on her? The way Jack handles jealousy in episodes like THP is to become a controlling immature dickwad for a long stretch. But hey, he just cares so much yanno.

Controlling behavior
At first, he says he's just concerned about you. He may throw a tantrum if you are a few minutes late coming home from work or the store, or question you closely about where you went, who you spoke to.

See above. And check.

He tries to cut you off from friends and family. He may restrict your use of the phone, limit your use of the car or prevent you from going to work or school.

“I’ve never heard of ….” As if Kate had to vet all her friends before she was allowed to go to the park with Aaron. Apparently Jack thinks so.


* Past abuse
You may hear from relatives or former partners that he is abusive.

Imagine Kate swapping stories with Sarah and Achara. Or even Christian. Oh, to be a fly on the wall.

* Threats
He makes threats meant to control you.

“Put it on me!” Enough said.

* Any use of force during an argument
He may hold you down, restrain you from leaving a room, push or shove you, or hold you against a wall.

Let’s see, when have we seen Jack restrain someone from leaving? Oh yes, the infamous first Jate kiss. Hold against a wall? Wonder what Achara would say about that? Hell, yeah? Force during an argument? Apparently that little arrest for battering his dad doesn't count.

Let me give you some basic pointers about abuse.

Abuse almost always starts small and grows, so the idiotic Jater idea that it's abuse only when a guy pours gas on your head and threatens to light a match is asinine. Abuse starts with the cold stares, the demands for explanations, the cutting remarks, the withholding of affection or praise until the woman complies or apologizes. It doesn't start with a fist and a black eye. Just because a woman gets out before the relationship ends in broken bones, or a scorchmark on the garage floor doesn't mean the situation wasn't abusive.

Abusers aren't horrible 24/7. If they were, no one would stay with them at all. They can be the most loving, charming people on the planet when they are being "good." Jack obviously was on his very best behavior when he first moved in with Kate. Abuse comes in cycles which is why women think that the guy might just stay in the nice phase forever and are constantly shocked when he reverts to his shitty abusive tactics. But it's called the cycle of abuse for a reason--it's a cycle: nice, tense, irritable, blow-up, apologies, honeymoon and it all starts again. Jack fits this pattern. As long as Kate is being all pink panties and cute giggles, he is Mr. Wonderful. But once she stops being a reflection of his ego, tensions rise and we enter the grey area where abuse often begins.

Do not confuse sexual aggression in foreplay as sexual abuse. Often times, a true abuser isn't abusive sexually; in fact, that may be the best part of the relationship. He may be a very good lover and it may be only during times of sexual intimacy that his kind side is revealed, where sex is used as a reward and a way to convince his partner of the benefits of doing things his way. Many women who are in abusive situations have said the sex was the best part of it.

So to characterize abuse only in sexual terms or only as battering is to trivialize the experience of many woman. Not to mention, it contributes to the overall dynamics and problem by shifting the blame onto the victim. Why do you think so few cases are reported or that the problem often goes on for years? Because victims are conditioned to believe it is their behavior that's the problem and needs to be changed. That they are at fault for what is going on, and are trapped in a cycle of shame and low self esteem with the misguided need to fix what's 'wrong' with them. But don’t just take my word for it. Go visit and hear for yourself what abuse sounds like. If you have the stomach for it, that is.

But enough of the Public Service Announcement.
Let's look at some of the frankly laughable retaliatory responses that have been put forward by the Jacksters.

"If Jack's an abuser, I'm Joan of Arc."

Well, gosh, the spreadsheet queen has spoken. Say no more! You can take her word for it!

“Jack is not an abuser ... he was just angry ... he never abused Kate, they shouted but that doesn't make it domestic violence. Do you seriously think that if he was abusing her Kate would have said yes to his proposal! She was hardly walking on eggshells - she was ecsatic when he asked her... not afraid of him! Since when did Jack imply he was looking for a perfect little wife! Kate was the one who took the step towards him in Eggtown. ... I just don't see where you are coming from with your comments.”

Yep, he was just angry. And if his actions were to escalate, does he get another free pass because he was a just a little more angry? I don’t think that “just angry” is a legitimate defense in any court of law.

“Jack is, and has always been a good man. He's got a horrible self-image, and he blames himself for failures that many times are not even his to claim, but Jack is still a good man.”

Okay, so good men lie under oath, would commit murder if their guns hadn’t jammed, beat the crap out of their fathers, scream until the veins bulge on their necks, batter guys like Ben to a pulp, refuse to treat a patient because they got pissed off, give a cold shoulder to their own nephew, not to mention doing drugs and alcohol while on duty as a doc? If that’s a good guy, give me a bad one any day.

“I think it's quite obvious that even though Jack has displayed mild forms of abuse before, that he isn't an abuser, but maybe that's just you and I thinking such things.”

Huh? So this is like being a little pregnant? Where do you draw the line? Abuse is abuse, mild or not.

“I wonder if real abusers cry when people die or when their wife leaves them or when they find out they hurt their father deeply with their actions or when they find out their father really did love them?”

So Jack isn’t a potential abuser because he can cry? Go to any women’s shelter and ask how many times a boyfriend has sobbed and cried that he was oh so sorry and would she just come back…to the same old pattern of abuse. Tears do not absolve anything. Many abusers claim they only do what they do because they love and care about the victim so damn much.

Please note that these responses were in reply to a thread started posing the question whether Jack was a fully fledged abuser. Which is clearly designed to provoke a more knee jerk response, and dodges the valid question as to whether Jack displays abusive tendencies with regard to his relationship with women.

But the best is yet to come. I've seen Flyer, Weezil (and others) trying to do a bait a switch. Trying to claim that because Sawyer is extroverted in letting a woman know he wants her, and because he and Kate indulge in frisky sexual games that somehow this signifies he's the abuser.

Come on, we're all frakking adults here. We know the difference between mating rituals and sexual horseplay, and actions which are designed to control, bully or hurt a person. Who do you think you're fooling with all that hand waving misdirection? I'm not even going to bother trying to reply to their silly claims that Sawyer exposed his genitals to a poor defenseless Kate,

or that offscreen he might have picked out Kate's dress to demean her and other similar bullshit. It's just grasping at straws to take the heat off of the character of Jack.

And one more thing, if you're excusing Jack because you yell at your kids too much or were constantly yelled at growing up, maybe something should have been done about that. Yelling at children IS abusive. It's not the same as hitting them in the head, but no one deserves to be screamed at. If screaming at your child is the only way you can get their attention or their obedience, then maybe you ain't doing it right. There may be times when a parent has to speak loudly and firmly, but that's WAY different than habitually yelling at a child. Who are you defending? A fictional character, or your own behavior? Think about it.

Think about what you're saying when you claim that it's only abuse if the guy's beating down your door, putting fists through windows, terrorizing the kids, putting bruises on you and so on. It's feeding a culture where women feel obligated to tough it out, and stay in destructive and potentially harmful relationships rather than seeking help or getting the hell out of dodge BEFORE things get as bad as described as above.

Something must be hitting home with all of this discussion of abuse. The way some feel the need to stridently defend Jack's behavior and prove that he isn't an abuser actually reminds me of someone who is being abused and protects the abuser at all cost. The hyperbole, the attempts to deflect the argument and the refusal to see bad behavior as bad are quite classic behaviors of someone in an abusive relationship.

Perhaps deep down the Jaters are aware that Jack is, in fact, borderline abusive, or at least a control freak with violent and addictive tendencies. However, they deeply identify with this character and find him attractive. This fundamental conflict--being attracted to a bad man when you see yourself as a good woman--creates an uncomfortable level of cognitive dissonance. In order to resolve it, and being unwilling to give up the attraction to the Jack character, they must, by necessity, turn Jack into a good man at all cost and refuse to acknowledge his abusive tendencies. Similarly, for many women trapped in abusive relationships and yet still in love with their partner, the only choices are to leave the situation or to minimize it. Almost all women go the minimizing route in the beginning. That's exactly what the Jaters are doing here.

Attempting to eradicate any discussion of the behavior entirely, yelling Spartacus, denying what is presented and twisting the ugliness to make it seem beautiful is being disingenuous at best, frakking stupid at worst.

While it's true that there are two sides to every story, and that the failures of Jack and Kate should not be laid solely at Jack's feet, one has to wonder at the prevailing attitude in some camps that continue to assert that Kate had it coming. That any mistreatment, aggression, domination or punishment by Jack onto Kate over the past four seasons has been warranted. It's pretty sad to see female posters taking the same mentality that abusers often adopt. That if the woman would just do what she's told, and not screw up, or do anything to disappoint or anger the man, things would be just fine and dandy.

That's pure bat guano. Plain and simple.


"Jack wouldn't harm anyone, emotionally or physically"

Holy blinkered delusions, batman. You know I get accused of giving undue criticism of Jack, and hero worshipping Sawyer to an extreme, but I ain't got nothing on this broad. She takes bias to a whole new plane. I want what she's smoking, STAT. What does the show have to say about that idiotic claim?

The whole declaration of St. Jack as the most noble man on the island and who would never hurt anyone is beyond absurd. As is the idea that Damon loves Jack too much to make him an abusive character. Hell, writing a character who is the hero but is so deeply flawed as to be a drug addict, alcoholic and possible abuser is in my opinion a marvelously risky creative venture. If I were Damon I'd be damn proud of myself for having done just that and done it successfully.

Your thoughts?


Anonymous said...

When you put it all out like that, it's pretty scary.

Aika said...

Made of pure awesomeness. And still, very sad. Its so clear that people just don't want to see what is right on their faces that makes me wonder if they are that blind or living deep down into denial.

Congrats for the text, Fish!

Anonymous said...

Great illustration, Fish, of what seems so obvious to so many.

My question is why Damon and Co. have put Jack forward as the hero, given all of this, and what does it say about him/them? They have taken Jack down from the guy who was heroic right after the crash and shown his true nature, yet he's still supposed to be the hero rather than the abusive jerk? What does that say?

On the other side, they have taken Sawyer, who was supposed to be the jerk, and made him at least as heroic, if not more so, than the one with the label. I can't believe it's with anything other than deliberate purpose, yet the original label still holds. Makes no sense to me.

Anonymous said...

You made some really valid points regarding Jack and his abusive tendencies. Hopefully it will make some people open their eyes and see the character for what he is. It really is a brave move for Damon to turn the original hero into a drug addict, alcoholic and controlling potentially abusive jerk. Great job, Fish!

Britas said...

So well written, nicely done Fish. Thank you.

LostTvFan said...

But the best is yet to come. I've seen Flyer, Weezil (and others) trying to do a bait a switch. Trying to claim that because Sawyer is extroverted in letting a woman know he wants her, and because he and Kate indulge in frisky sexual games that somehow this signifies he's the abuser.

Isn't it interesting that not one of them ever wrote a post about Sawyer's abusive behavior until now? Then they used the best defensive is a good offense strategy and attacked Sawyer; when they couldn’t defend Jack.. They have charged always charged our charming Southerner with 'flashing Kate', wanting only sex from her, and being too sexy for a shirt. BUT until this post went up, none of them saw Sawyer as potentially abusive.

This issue seems to have hit them where it hurts! Thanks for Fishbiscuiting it and suggesting that some of them take a step back and actually read the BS they are writing to defend a hero who looks less than heroic. Nice job!

Anonymous said...

Thank you, Fish! Amazing, real, scary, needed post!

losttvfan said...

Isn't it interesting that not one of them ever wrote a post about Sawyer's abusive behavior until now?

Well that because he is a murderer. Cant get more abusive than that.

Remind me

How many people has saywer killed in cold blood?

Anne said...

Thank you Fish for weighing in on this very troubling topic. I too believe that the theme of domestic abuse is very relevant to both Kate and Jack's stories on Lost.

As for the above poster with the very unoriginal name. Way to miss the point.

Yes, Sawyer has killed some people. You could call him a murderer.

But what does that make Kate? She's a "cold blooded murderer" too.

Or Sayid? Mike? Juliet? Locke? Or even Hurley who ran over someone?

Or how about Jack? Who very deliberately pulled the trigger on Locke, intending to kill him in cold blood?

Killing someone, for whatever reason has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Which is domestic abuse.

More misdirection from the crazies.

Notice they can't defend their so-called hero, so they just try to blame Sawyer instead.

So predictable.

Maryann said...

Or Charlie who shot Ethan in cold blood...

So Jacksus wouldn't hurt anyone, physically, emotionally and mentally? Who said that crap? Jack's done ALL of that! He's no saint nor a hero IMO. He just PRETENDS to be one. Then blames everyone else when his "good intentions" fail.

To claim he's never hurt anyone in any way shape or form is just crazy, at best scary cos whoever said this may just be that blind or too scared to face the facts.. if that's the case I feel sorry for that person and hope the person get help soon!

Freckles said...

Great review Fish as always.You're the best!

Anonymous said...

Amazing post. As a past victim of abuse myself I felt sick watching the Jate scene in SNBH.

LostTvFan said...

LOL will the real LostTvFan please stand up? Here's a typical and very telling remark from a Jater defending Jack:

Jack has a very masculine cry IMHO. He cries when he's pissed, angry. It distracts him from punching someone's lights out. But I agree with Flyer that Jack doesn't cry half as much as people claim. Locke and Sayid are in the running for "The Most Tears" award as well. Whenever Locke doesn't get straight answers from the Island, and falls on his face whenever Ben manipulates him (which is fairly often), he throws a tantrum.

So crying is Jack's way of controlling his anger. Good to know. Considering how often we have seen him pissed, I am surprised he doesn't cry more than he does. I wonder if making other people cry is another tool Jack uses to distract himself from punching someone's lights out? Nice way to prove our point for us.

Anonymous said...

I have to admit that although I despise the character Jack I never fully agreed about him being an abuser. Until now. Hell, seeing everything he have done put together and his uncontrolled rage in the scenes with Achara, Juliet, Christian, Sawyer, Ben, Locke and Kate actually seals the deal. He is an abuser! If Kate ever returns to that we will all witness history repeating itself: Diane going back to Wayne.

Is it a coincidence that Kate as a child witnessed her alcoholic “stepfather” abuse her mum who never chose her child over the abuser and now, 20 years later, Kate have the chance to either protect her child from it’s alcoholic “stepfather” or doing what her mother did? I think not!

Anonymous said...

Great post, Fish. As always, the pictures really strengthen the argument.

One thing that's bothered me during this whole is-Jack-abusive go-round is the willingness of those who defend Jack to dismiss the experiences of Sarah and Achara. Sarah is just a selfish bitch who deserves what she gets because she (maybe) committed adultery. Achara's just a vacation fling who deserves what she gets because she won't share all her secrets with the other half of that vacation fling. It's okay for Jack to stalk Sarah because he wants to know the name of her new man; it's okay for Jack to manhandle Achara because he wants the truth. Would it still be okay if Jack had locked Sarah in a closet until she coughed up the info? Would it still be okay if Jack had dislocated Achara's shoulder or broken her wrist? I guess so, since we know Jack would never do anything to hurt another person emotionally or physically. Anything Jack does to a woman is entirely justified by Jack's needs.


Anonymous said...

Fabulous post Fish.

And your right, Jack has displayed many signs of emotional abuse even in the beginning. I know from experience how emotional abuse starts, growing up with an emotionally abusive father, Jacks life was a piece of cake and Christian was a prince compared to myself an other households I knew growing up.

But the part that scares me the most, is like you said, Damon says Jack is the deeply troubled hero of Lost. And yes, he may be a hero, but do people really want to root for him when hes displaying this type of behavior? It scares me that he is the character that can do no wrong, and the one that others look up to, yet he treats most of them very poorly. Honestly and trully, I dont think Jack had any real friends on that island and I think that speaks volumes.

And his kindof behavior isnt something that will go away over night. This has been engrained in him since the beginning of the show. So are we supposed to continue to root for this man 'who walks alone' who doesnt care about anyone person on that island, all he cares about is stroking his own ego, by making up for his past failures.

Are we supposed to like flawed Jack? And root for him to get better? Kinda sounds like an abusive relationship with the fans to me, lol.

No worries, I wont be rooting for him any time soon. In my opinion, his final act of redemption, his character arc, should to finally commit a selfless act for his fellow losties by sacrificing his own life. That is the only true redemption Jack can offer them now, imo.

Anonymous said...

Blaming Sawyer to take the heat off Jack is hilarious when arguments comprise such examples as "claims a boar has a vendetta against him"! Now could you get a more telltale sign that Sawyer is an abuser through and through?!

Good read Fishbiscuit, this is a fair analysis of whether Jack shows signs of abusing or not. And you've proved beyond doubt with your evidence that he does indeed show tendencies toward it. At least enough to be extremely cautious of the guy if this was RL. Hope your message can even help someone who is experiencing emotional or physical ill-treatment too!


Anonymous said...

To the losttvfan imposter. Firstly, you are not nearly as fun as the REAL LTF, and have very little to none of her originality. Secondly, sorry to burst your bubble but a murderer does not an abuser make, and vice versa.

Would you call Sayid an abuser, or Locke perhaps? Juliet? Charlie? Do they exhibit any of the signs that the Fish so clearly outlined here as warning bells of a potentially abusive personality? If you are honest with yourself you would say no. Yet all of these people have pulled the trigger, all of these people have committed murder. But Jack, he hasn't (technically) and yet, he displays so many of these behaviours it is baffling, and very scary.

The next time you come looking for a debate, try actually staying on topic. Misdirection does nothing for you, because all it says is that you cannot argue against your opponents points.

And to the Fish and LTF, you've done a great job at bringing all of this to light. As Midnight said, perhaps even someone suffering in silence and not aware, will be enlightened by this post.


Anonymous said...

I knew that Jack's behavior made me feel uncomfortable, but I hadn't really made the connection between his behavior and classic abuse until this entry. Like the very first comment says, "when you put it all out like that, it's pretty scary." I have no idea if the writers know they've created a classic abusive figure, but if they haven't, they should take a look at this.


Anonymous said...

This topic has been making the rounds at most of the LOST forums lately and I had hoped that it would encourage people to really think about the topic. Unfortunately, there seems to be no penetrating the force filed of denial that exists around the die-hard Jack/Jater fans who seem to think that it is only abuse if fists are flying. They miss the whole point that abusers rarely wake up one morning and punch their partner in the face. It always starts out small and seemingly innocent, but when you ask a woman who has stayed in an abusive relationship until the physical abuse starts, she will almost be able to use hindsight and identify the red flags that had been there all along. All anyone is trying to say is that Jack exhibits many of these red flags that should caution any woman.

And like someone mentioned earlier, I can only think that the writers have done all this deliberately. The parallels with Jack/Kate to Diane/Wayne are surely no coincidence. I hope.


Anonymous said...

Abuse almost always starts small and grows, so the idiotic Jater idea that it's abuse only when a guy pours gas on your head and threatens to light a match is asinine.

I saw that remark when it was posted and shook my head in disgust. That's where abuse often ends, in murder. It begins with much less violent behavior. Yelling, destroying the victim’s self esteem, controlling their access to friends and family. But unchecked it always escalates. Using an extreme example to minimize Jack’s behavior is exactly why so many women end up seriously hurt or dead. Same on whoever used this to excuse a fictional character’s actions or defend his reputation.

Hamburgo1001 said...

Jack has a very masculine cry IMHO. He cries when he's pissed, angry. It distracts him from punching someone's lights out. But I agree with Flyer that Jack doesn't cry half as much as people claim. Locke and Sayid are in the running for "The Most Tears" award as well. Whenever Locke doesn't get straight answers from the Island, and falls on his face whenever Ben manipulates him (which is fairly often), he throws a tantrum.

This is utter bullshit. In fact, studies have shown that men who cry very often or are very often on the verge of tears do it in order to manipulate people and to create a feeling of pity. That's not something to be proud of.

Would you call Sayid an abuser, or Locke perhaps? Juliet? Charlie?

If you believe it or not but according to one of the more delusional Jate/Jack fans Juliet is an abuser because she has conducted illegal research methods (yes, Rachel didn't want to have a baby. Juliet forced her by putting a gun to her head.) and Sun is an abuser because she's a liar and a cheat. They go to great lengths to defend their Jack.

WJay said...

Jack is abusive, and that is pretty obvious to anyone that watches Lost, well maybe not to jaters who are, i don't know, living on a bubbly planet "jack and Kate are meant to be together"
so they watch lost with their eyes closed half of the time.
with that said, i am not a jater or a skater. in fact i think kate should not be with any of them, sayid would be best match for her in my opinion.
as for jack, yes he is a troubled soul, abusive at times, egoistic, a control freak, flawed in different areas, in short he has PROBLEMS, MANY problems, but for me that makes him a very, very interesting character! i don't know why people label him just as hero, because he is not a classic type of hero, he is most definitely an ANTIHERO.
redemption is one of the main themes of lost, and that is the road that jack must take. but as he has done so many shi**y things, i think his redemption is going to be the ultimate one, meaning that he will have to sacrifice his life to save everyone at the end of the show.
peace and love! ;)

Anne said...

It would certainly be an interesting development for Kate to choose to be independent and alone. I am not averse to that because if it means her character becomes stronger and a better contributer to the overall plot, I could live with that.

However, the PTB have said several times that they have decided who Kate will end up with, and it is one of the two men in the triangle.

I would agree that Jack is actually more interesting now that his flaws have been revealed as much darker and more deep than certain sections of fandom want to admit. I should think that as an actor, Matthew Fox is enjoying having a meatier, more edgy role than before. He certainly nails the destructive, drunken/drugged out, delusional, stealing-lying-cheating desperate loser side of Jack pretty well.

Anonymous said...

Wow. Fantasic read Fish. *thumbs up*

Recently i have been trying to ignore the jaters/jack fans and see if that makes me like jack anymore, and it did. I do like the story he has, but there is no denying that he has some very unlikable character traits. One of those is that he IS borderline abusive. the bottom line is if kate stays with him its only a matter of time until she becomes her mother.

I feel so sorry for kates character. She doesnt deserve any of this....

The most scary thing though is how damon and the jackers can't see whats right in front of them and cling desperately to the "hero" figure. And yes, jack is a hero too. But they seem to accuse anyone who isn't to biased to see that he isn't a perfect hero, that these abusive traits fit him, of watching imaginary lost. wtf?!

Fish, my fave part of this is how you ask the jack fans who they are really defending. jack or their own behaviour. This is a brilliant read and i really think it has hit home. Thankyou for tackling this issue, and lets all hope that kate manages to stay away and not follow in her mothers footsteps.


aohora said...

I dunno. Jack is so paranoid about having The Finger of Blame pointed at him. I'm having a hard time buying a general tendency for misogyny.

However, I think if you check closely, Jack falls under another interesting checklist diagnosis:

"Doesn't know that he's gay."

Kimberwyn said...

Thank you for this post, I always tried to explain to people why I thought this way about Jack, this explains it perfectly. Honestly it wouldnt surprise me if the writes knew exactly what they were doing here.

Juanita's Journal said...

I think that Jack was a bit controlling when it came to Kate. Unfortunately, she was manipulative with him. Even worse, I think she was emotionally abusive with Sawyer. He pretty much accused her of this in "Eggtown".