Monday, June 16, 2008


In the wake of the tsunami that ripped apart the foundations of the Jack & Kate story in Season Four, you may have noticed a clever little phrase has gained popularity among the last Jaters standing. Can you find it here, in these words of wisdom from the ever perceptive DocLover?

Ked, keep reading whatever posts you want, but always remember to step over the BS and laugh at what you know is so utterly untrue that you can't believe what you just read! It is Imaginary Lost at it's finest sometimes.
- Doc

What is Imaginary Lost you ask? Well, it's hard to say, but I think it can be paraphrased as follows: If you don't understand that the purpose of Lost is to show that Jack and Kate are meant to be, that everything that happens onscreen is all just subtext to the greatest love story ever told, then you are in a serious state of delusion about what show you're watching. In fact, you're likely quite insane and are making up an entirely irrelevant parallel story in your head that bears absolutely no resemblance to the show being written, produced, directed and acted by the cast and crew of ABC's Lost. In other words, the only people watching Non Imaginary Lost are the 25 or so stalwart dead enders still passing around Jate Cake at the Fuse. But you don't have to feel like you're missing out. Because I bring you today your very own cheat sheet, so you won't fall behind those Kool Kidz on the Kouch.

The first thing you have to learn about the finale, maybe the only thing you have to learn, is that on Non Imaginary Lost,



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The helicopter kiss. The one before Sawyer sacrificed himself so the love of his life could go home like she wanted. Heroism, you say? Spectacular? Pffft....Take it from Shoegirl. That's Imaginary Lost at its finest.

The opposite ship stuff ended up being nothing to worry about huh? Definitely wasn't spectacular. Really, it was pretty much a one-sided goodbye kiss from Sawyer. - Shoegirl

Shoegirl is quite clear on this point. And it's not like she's trying to convince herself or anything.

Penny and Desmond was passionate. Sawyer and Kate, nah, not so much. Sawyer probably jumped in the ocean because he saw Kate go to Jack. -Shoegirl

Yup. She is NOT repeating this over and over to herself while she rocks in a corner somewhere. Not at all. It was all just Imaginary!

Yeah, I think Darlton played the fan bases in a big way with their pimping of the spectacular kisses. ..Most of the reviews are talking about the wonderful emotion of the Desmond Penny kiss. The Sawyer Kate kiss fell short of being spectacular. It was a nice heroic moment for Sawyer. But the kiss. Not so spectacular. I was actually relieved after having watched it. - Shoe

The coolest thing about this totally non spectacular kiss was the second basic fact from Non Imaginary Lost:


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....this was about Sawyer letting go because he knows Kate loves Jack.Finally letting go. Well, that's one more obstacle out of the way. - Doc

Bye, bye, Obstacle.

If not completely over, at the least

...the triangle was relegated to it's proper subtle place. -MysticXF

I believe that the finale was very Jate-centric, in so many ways, and I'm thankful for that. But I have to say that I am glad the romance aspect wasn't so "IN YOUR FACE."-Doc

It kind of felt like it was "IN YOUR FACE" to me,

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but then, I'm one of those Imaginary Lost fans.

Kate only acknowledged her friend Sawyer, yep, Kate considers and loves Sawyer, as her friend, the one who has a funny nickname for her, but it is Jack she ALWAYS goes to, and she touches, and she wants to be with, and oh yeah, she said YES to. It is Jack, that Kate truly loves. It is Jack and Kate who TPTB continue to give us massive amounts of angst and obstacles in their path. - Shoegirl

I think the point Shoegirl is making is that this scene where Kate inspects Jack's seepage to see if it's starting to stink

is the equivalent of this scene of naked, post coital tenderness,

which ignited Jack's jealousy in that ultimate Imaginary Lost episode, I Do. And if you don't get that, she'll repeat it a few times more for you...

I loved how Kate rushed to Jack when they meet up at the Orchid. I enjoyed seeing Sawyer once again realize he isn't Jack, and never will be. And that Kate, loves Jack. Not him. - Shoe

...or at least until she convinces herself it's true. Because it's all certainly very, very obvious to anyone without an Imagination.

On the other hand, Sawyer's self-sacrificing jump into the water—after making his unheard request to Kate—was a great moment, and further convinced me that Kate is mooning over the wrong guy in the future.

whoever is watching THIS show knows that Jate is the main relationship on LOST,no one has had the slow build up that they had...Whoever has doubts that they'll go back to each other and end this journey together,as it's always been,doesn't understand the Jate Power.believe US,because no one knows Jack&Kate better than Jaters do - Franci

The third important fact from Non Imaginary Lost, is that


Except maybe in the sense of being a martyr for the great cause of JIF.

He is the farthest thing from a hero there ever could be. He has a long way to go before anyone can call him that and it actually be true!! That Imaginary Lost will get 'em every time!-DocLover

Pfft. Kate didn't even care that he jumped!

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Her face when Sawyer jumped out of the helicopter was NOTHING compared to the emotion on her face when Jack said he was going off into the jungle alone after the helicopter.-LoveFOXY

And besides, on Non Imaginary Lost, we all know who the true hero is.

When Frank asked if anyone else wanted to jump, she immediately looked at Jack, knowing that he would gladly do the same if it meant to save her, you know he was thinking about it. -Along for the Ride

In fact, it's entirely Imaginary that this kiss was even about Sawyer and Kate. It was actually all about....wait for it...JACK!

The Kate/Sawyer kiss - initiated by SAWYER - was important because it was more about JACK than Sawyer/Kate. The big focus wasn't even on the kiss, but on Jack's reaction to it. Huge. So the kiss itself wasn't spectacular but Sawyer stepping aside (literally!) was. -Luc21

Duh! Who could have missed him over there in the corner, with his grimace and his beady little eyes taking it all in? I'm sure no one was even looking at any of that yucky non spectacular kissing. And why wouldn't all the focus be on Jack? Never forget this:

Human decency, and the knowledge of what the right thing to do, are totally different things. Jack had in that case, both human decency, morals, and the knowledge. Heroic. - Shoegirl

With that in mind, it eases the pain of dealing with all those Imaginary Lost watchers out there:

I admit I had a small lump in my throat when Sawyer sacrificed himself by jumping out the helicopter so Lapidus could conserve fuel. Sawyer whispered something to his true love Kate, planted a nice, big wet one on her (Kate and Sawyer sure have some sizzling kissing chemistry, don't they?) and then hurled himself into the ocean like only a real manly man would. If you're gonna show your undying love for someone, hell, that's the way to do it. Now, we all know Sawyer's still alive, but Kate doesn't know that and probably believes he's dead.

And I know it's hard at times, but I try to not let other fans' speculation that I disagree with get to me. They are fans, just like us, and they don't know any more than we do. Trust what you see in the show, not what other fans think is going on. . - Zoe Washington

9:57PM: It’s official. Sawyer wins most romantic fictional TV character of the year by jumping out of the helicopter to save Kate.

I'm not sure what people are watching on Thursday nights. - Franci

I’m not really big into all the shipper stuff, but I have to admit that I really dug the scene when Sawyer jumped out of the helicopter in order for Kate to have safe passage to the freighter. This was a scene that not only continued to develop their relationship, but it also showed how far Sawyer has come as a character. Think of Sawyer in season one. Along with Jin, his character has changed the most. He has gone from an anti-hero to a plain ol’ hero over the course of the past three years.

I'm not sure what people are watching on Thursday nights. - Franci

In retrospect, that non spectacular kiss was so imaginary, that all those pre-finale heart attacks weren't even necessary, Jaters. Because on Non Imaginary Lost, Darlton weren't even talking about Sawyer and Kate.

I guess we know who really got the "spectacular kiss" - Des/Penny!!! *squee* - which was a VERY nice surprise for me since I had no idea it was there and I even READ the finale synopsis. It wasn't in there. And I think this IS the kiss that team Darlton was talking about. - Luc21

Now, you can read the ABC recap which Gregg Nations informed us was based on script notes, and you'll find this description of the moment:

Sawyer looks at the others and makes a decision. He leans over to Kate, whispers something in her ear, and then kisses Kate the kind of kiss that stops time. It's nothing short of spectacular.

But think about it. Do the Lost scriptwriters post on the Couch? No, I don't think so. Therefore, who are they to tell us what is or is not spectacular on Non Imaginary Lost? They need to get a reality check. The triangle is OVAH, Skaters. Any thought to the contrary proves you're living in the State of Denial. Let's let Banshee explain it.

On a footnote & reiterating, given SNBH I think they had to toss the slap (& kiss) in there to on the surface, make it appear like Jate/Skate were on a level playing field. -Banshee

You know, on the surface, it looked to me like Jate/Skate are on about as bipolar a playing field as you can get. But maybe that's because we Skaters are all such surfacey thinkers. We might have thought that things looked pretty grim for old junky Jack and the object of his obsession. But, NO! Wrong again. Fourth basic fact of Non Imaginary Lost was that the Jateyest highlight of the Jaterific finale was this:


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Teh smack O'love..In TNPLH she hit Jack b/c he essentially refused to fight for himself, her/Aaron, their love/happiness. Whereas in ET she did it b/c she was offended that Sawyer tried to cheapen her & her connection w/Jack - Banshee

One of the beauties of Non Imaginary Lost is the neat little packages it comes in. Not only did the Smack O'love prove that Jate is Fate (you doubted?) but it also explains something most Imaginary Lost fans still wonder about - why was Kate apologizing to Aaron?

What I actually LOVED about that airport scene is that it's not actually negative. It's easy to spin it that way, that she came back and smacked him and that's so Oooobad,... the slap in the face feels harsh, but that's Kate's "I got it all right this time, WE did it right, and YOU screwed it up by choosing this insanity over US!" and she has every right to be THAT angry. She goes home to a boy who wants to know what's going on, where his "dad" is, and what can she tell him? "I'm sorry. I'm so sorry." - MysticXF

Do you understand now? She was apologizing because she couldn't convince Aaron's "dad" to come home - the guy who spent approximately one hot minute in Aaron's life - this guy, the one whose been sleeping in that same crusty T-shirt for at least a week -

Kate is only sad because she can't bring Junky Jack home to sit on the other side of Aaron's room and read age inappropriate literature to him anymore. I mean, seriously, what show are you watching? Let's repeat this and get it straight this time.

On a footnote & reiterating, given SNBH I think they had to toss the slap (& kiss) in there to on the surface, make it appear like Jate/Skate were on a level playing field. -Banshee

It's all one of those clever tricks they use to keep us thinking there's a love triangle on Lost. But kindly remember - that's only on Imaginary Lost.

So in summary, ultimately this opening scene imo ironically showed just how much J/K love each other due to the sheer level of pain b/w them- Banshee

Love hurts, baby. And don't you forget it. If you're not filled with loathing for the wretched junky who treats your kid like a drive by, it's just not true love. On non Imaginary Lost, this is what love looks like.

As great as the Smack O'love was for the future of Jate on Non Imaginary Lost, it really pales in comparison to the greatness of the fight in Something Nice Back Home. Because, here comes the fifth basic fact of Non Imaginary Lost:


They really had a family...and in her eyes he ruined that. She just doesn't understand yet...but she will. Do you really think she wants to keep his nephew from him forever? Of course not. - LoveFOXY

A real family?

You mean the kind where Mommy's boyfriend gets drunk and stoned and yells at Mommy in the middle of the night and wakes up the kids and everybody's crying and screaming? That kind of real family? ...And I don't know about you, but it didn't really seem to me like Kate was "keeping" Aaron from Jack. It seemed more like Jack didn't want to be anywhere near the bastard child of his father's bastard child. Wasn't that what this head pinch of agonizing self pity was all about?

Didn't he just round on the kid right then and there and shun him for about two years? And then shun him again once Kate put her pants back on and cut off the nookie? I know, I know, still stuck on Imaginary Lost. Let's get back to the real thing.

By what they've shown us, it seems like Jack/Kate 'coupled' right after they were rescued and then they split up for reasons unknown and for a time unknown. Then they re-coupled after the trial. This would mean Jack has been in Aaron's life for most of the three years since the rescue. And for three years Aaron has been Kate's son -- and I wish people would come to grips that this MAKES HIM HER SON and it's not creepy for her to treat and defend him like HER SON -- and Jack has been Aaron's father figure. - MysticXF

Mystic is quite clear on this, so don't try to fight with her. It doesn't matter that Jack spent about a New York minute in Aaron's life. He's his father figure! Sixth fact about Non Imaginary Lost:


And it's another instance of Jack's protectiveness towards both Kate and Aaron - he's right there making sure they are okay - Zoe Washburne

Blotto Babysitting is what all the protective father figures are doing these days. And it's a good thing he's there, always doing the right thing.

Kate is pretty content in raising Aaron and calling him her own, whereas Jack (who always needs to do the right thing) can't continue living the lie and pretending - Man of Science, Man of Faith

God help this kid. Not only does he have Uncle Drunky protecting him, he's caught right up in the middle of the epic love of Jack and Kate.

Let me ask you guys this,... where does she get off slapping Jack in the face and telling him to not even say Aaron's name. I'm starting to think she might be taking this "bestest soccer mom in all of So-Cal" thing a bit too far, IF she knows about the relationship with Jack/Claire/Aaron. For her to act like that almost makes me think she doesn't know. Jack is Aaron's uncle. Kate is not related to Aaron in any way. So what gives HER the right to keep Aaron away from Jack and then tell him to not even say Aaron's name? -Doc

Furious over learning he was still competing with Sawyer for Kate's mind, heart, and time, Jack raged: ''I'm the one who saved you!'' Does he actually love this woman, or does he view her as some reward for being a good boy?

And Working Mom sounds like she's got some Mother In Law style marriage counseling for the happy couple:

I think she has a lot to learn about being in a couple, like many people do when they start out. So does Jack for that matter. And people do learn. - Working Mom

She's from the Dr. Laura school of marriage counseling - which boils down to "Unless He Broke Your Nose, It Was Your Fault."

When you are engaged or married, you don't do secret favors for the ex, and Kate had to learn that....She simply thought she could get away with it unnoticed and didn't come clean when she should have. - Working Mom

So, basically Kate can begin to endure her blissful eternity with Dr. Drunky, but only after she has learned to behave herself. And remember, Aaron is not without blame here either.

Am I the only one just heartbroken every time I see poor Aaron without his mother? And when he walked in on Jack saying Kate's not even related to him, I just wanted to hug him...Maybe the island doesn't want Kate to be with Jack. The island is a Skater!

I also think that Aaron was VERY MUCH a problem in SNBH.actually he was the core of the problem,and also the core of their wasn't about Sawyer or the pills,and definitely it wasn't for lack of love,lol - Franci

Not Sawyer. Not Jack's dope. On Non Imaginary Lost, this guy

is the true culprit. Bad Aaron! No wonder Unca Jack doesn't want to look at your hideous self. You broke up the real family, you little brat! But even Aaron is a Jater.

I think he's also acting on the island's behalf to force J/K apart so that they would want to return to the island. B/c from what we saw in SNBH we know that Jack/Kate are capable of achieving true & lasting happiness together. - Banshee

If by "true" you mean "based on a Pact of Lies" and if by "lasting" you mean "about a week", then yeah, that was one happy couple. All I can say is, I really hope I'm never that happy.

(gif courtesy of Spunky)

Some silly Imaginary Lost fans thought that the juxtaposition of the two kisses - of Sawyer kissing Kate as he left her possibly forever and of Desmond kissing Penny when he found her after forever -

(gif courtesy of Spunky)

meant that the writers were passing the torch from one tragically separated couple to another.

The fact that this separation was sealed with a Promise seemed another profound connection. But that brings us to the seventh fact of Imaginary Lost:


The only possible parallel for Desmond and Penny is the grand romance of Junky Jack and his Slapper O'love, Kate.

I have a feeling the DesPen/Jate storylines will continue to parallel one another even in parenthood....I sort of see where one is at any given point, the other pair is the opposite. For i.e. in the future Jate is separated, & it can be assumed Des/Pen are together somewhere. - Banshee

I'm curious to see how they'll work out the details on that, but we Imaginary Lost fans just have trouble thinking "outside of the box". The fact that Jack and Kate are living around the block from one another doesn't mean they aren't totally, like, separated. It's too subtle for Imaginary Lost fans to understand, but we'll keep trying.

I was posting on FF about the similarities between DesPenny and Jate because someone was worrying about Skate and DesPenny being similar and people thinking kate just "gave up" on their relationship because she thinks sawyer did by jumping and that their reunion would be amazing...etc...Well my counter-argument was that Desmond NEVER gave up on Penny - not once (except when he left her for EIGHT years) - just like Jack has NEVER given up on Kate (except when he left her in handcuffs with killers because he was mad she screwed Sawyer)and will contiue to fight for her (unless she comes between him and his oxy) - where-as the skate relationship isn't even an issue in the future ( except when she puts her promise to him ahead of Jack and he blows up and denigrates Sawyer's sacrifice and treats Kate like a piece of shit) - she chooses to be with Jack(except when she leaves his stoned, psycho ass in the parking lot to do some more drunk crusing on the LA freeways.)... Just how Penny chooses to be with Desmond after everything... -Steph

But seriously, if you're not convinced that there is irrefutable proof of the Desmond & Penny parallels with Jate, Mystic has the clincher.

It still makes me incredibly giddy that when Jack and Desmond were talking and Kate and Penny were oogling the baby Des/Pen were dressed almost identical and Jack/Kate were also dressed almost identical. I doubt this was accidental given Jack and Desmond's conversation, and also his foreshadowing for Jack/Kate. -MysticXF

The proof is in the shirt colors! But one question. I noticed Frank also had a light blue shirt on. And dang, look at that - Sayid's in beige.

Is this like some sick menage a trois shirt color code we're seeing here? I don't understand Non Imaginary Lost! It's so subtle!

So, anywho....what's in store for the FUTURE of Non Imaginary Lost?

Well, Shoegirl would personally like to announce to the world the eighth fact of Non Imaginary Lost


The PTB did not declare in that moment that Sawyer and Kate were the OTP. If anything, they set up Sawyer and Juliet for some romance in Season 5 onward.-Shoegirl

On Non Imaginary Lost, Juliet wasn't watching in devastation as her last chance to go home blew up in smoke. Nope. She was admiring Shirtless Sawyer.

Juliet watched carefully and she enjoyed seeing Sawyer stroll shirtless out of the ocean. Now why oh why would he be shirtless in that scene, if we weren't supposed to already start thinking something is going to happen with these two. They'll be hot hot hot. -Shoegirl

I sort of thought he was shirtless because it was easier to swim like that, but that's the stupid Imaginary Lost talking again. And to reiterate, Shoegirl would like you to know :

Sawyer Juliet on the beach. They are going to be awesome to watch together. Hot hot hot.-Shoegirl

And she is NOT saying this to convince herself. Not at all. Because people who watch Non Imaginary Lost don't have to do that. It's all as clear as mud to them, 100% of the time....When Sawyer is done with Juliet, we will get to the ninth point of Imaginary Lost,


Sawyer will get to redeem himself as a father to Clementine, with Cassidy by his side, and perhaps take responsibility for the murders he committed. -Shoegirl

I believe that Sawyer did truly love Cassidy and they showed her to still be very much in love with him...I could really see a renuinion between both of them. - heartscollide

Because nothing says Love like "Fuck you, bitch, that ain't my kid"."

I never really thought about LB in that specific context (with Cass/Sawyer involved as well). I for one totally love that story and especially considering Kate will be keeping in touch with Cass/Clem due to Sawyer's favor, I am SO glad that that storyline is not being thrown away, I was afraid it would be. I'm not so sure tptb would give this "happy" of an ending, but Jack/Kate (hopefully with Jabies ) and Sawyer/Cass (and their little Clem of course)? I'd be a happy camper! - Strangelove311

It will be like Party of Five all over again! Only this time with extra added dysfunctionality.

Yup. That was the whole point of that episode last season - Diane couldn't help but love Wayne, Cassidy couldn't help but love Sawyer, and Kate can't help the fact that she loves Jack. And that's still the case in the future. She's hurt, she's angry, but she still loves him. - Zoe Washington

if I didn't know better, I'd think that Zoe just compared Jate to a relationship between a drunk and his abuse victim and/or a relationship where the guy robbed a woman blind and dumped her with a kid he didn't want...but I keep getting stuck between Imaginary and Non Imaginary Lost and I'm getting so confused! Did Zoe just compare Jack to ... Wayne???? ... You know, maybe Imaginary Lost isn't so different from Non Imaginary Lost after all.

But what of the


As fans of the one and only Non Imaginary Lost, what do these insightful fans foresee happening down the road?

Next season the spotlight presumably will be on them, & I think we will see many of the missing pieces in their courtship on their way back to the island & subsequently, each other.-Banshee

Because that's what the entire Lost fanbase is clamoring to see.

It will be quite the journey to see these two reforge their relationship and lead the rest of the 06 back to the island. - Shoegirl

Don't look behind you, Shoe, but I don't think anyone's hopping on that bandwagon with ya.

In any case, there's only one thing that matters to the future of Non Imaginary Lost.

Jack and Kate must go on to fufill the destinies that are in store for them (such as being Adam/Eve & having lots of Jabies ). - Banshee

Tenth fact about Non Imaginary Lost.


Maybe like the island won't let ppl die, it won't let Kate be with child until she & Jack consummate their relationship in Eden. -Banshee

If anything her life with Aaron has sort of groomed her AND Jack for parenthood. I completely agree with people about the island interfering with her ability to concieve. She could have possibly died if she did get pregnant so the island intervened. Thank God. I'm calling it... the island is a Jater. -Along for the Ride

Aaron is where he needs to be right now in the real world teach Jack/Kate the lessons they need to be parents to their own little "miracle"-Banshee

And of course, when it comes to the future of Lost,


It always comes back to those corpses!

And it'll be angsty and quite the journey seeing how Jack and Kate find their way back to each other again. And how, they ultimately end up being Adam and Eve. Because with Penny and Des off-island, the only 2 that could be Adam and Eve are Jack and Kate. -Shoegirl

The Adam & Eve thing has always struck an Imaginary Lost fan like me as just a wee bit....morbid...but I have to admit, nothing is quite as surreal as the future that Flyer is hoping for.

I agree! The castrated version of Jack that exists in the future needs to be gone. Will the REAL Jack Shephard please find the cajones he had for three seasons and do what has to be done, which is get that child away from Kate. He needs to get his little nephew some jeans, sleeveless tees, a burr haircut, a couple of rub on tattoos and book a one-way trip for two back to crap-hole island. Please and thank you. -Flyer

Will non castrated Jack fill Aaron's sippy cup with whiskey or methadone I wonder?...Just trying to think outside of the box here.

Occasionally a Non Imaginary Lost watcher has a few doubts.

I have a question... I was just reading that Jate was "got through" in one episode. Like... "dealt with" in one episode. But do you guys agree with that? - Ked

But this doubt was easily squelched by consulting one of the great authorities of Non Imaginary Lost - the Copulators thread from Fan Forum.

This is just BS really...I was talking with some jaters over the Copulators thread and that´s why we are the OTP of LOST. We have all those epics significant moments that TPTB keep making references to season after season ("Count to 5", "I´m gonna be your nurse", "chockpit scene", "I can´t leave without you"...) and only we have that. - LulinhaK

That's very true, Luka.

Only Jate has epic significant moments.

Yup.Only Jate.

No one else.


It must be tough for the visionary Jaters, having to deal with what amounts to almost a global conspiracy of Imaginary Lost watching:

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Here's the interesting thing about Sawyer: He embraced the island and didn't feel the need to leave it. But when everyone else got on the chopper, he was ready to face his life back home, too. He is comfortable with himself in a way that Jack is not. I still love Jack, precisely because his flaws make him an interesting character. But I actually now believe Sawyer is the better man for Kate. I have switched from Team Jater to Team Skater.

ked, I can't expand on anything else everyone has already said, except these three words that one should always heed whether in fandom, reading the news, or even the weather forecast: Consider the source. - Working Mom

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It was a crime that there was no Sawyer-centric episode this season, but you made up for it in spades! You were home free. The look on Hurley's face when Frank said the chopper was about 200 pounds too heavy spoke volumes. I know you knew that. You also saw the look on Kate's face. I now know you love her more than Jack does. I apologize for thinking he and Kate make the better couple. It should be you two. Your jumping out of the helicopter into the ocean to save the others was the noblest thing I may have ever seen in my life.

All of this to say,Ked,that you're reading the wrong posts.. - Franci

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There's some Jack/Kate/Sawyer. Sawyer calls Frank "Kenny Rodgers." The Oceanic Four fly toward the freighter but lose gas and have to dump everything heavy off the helicopter (Hurley looks worried), and then — wow, Sawyer whispers to Kate, gives her a great kiss, and then sacrifices himself, which is both sexy and sad.

I think some people keep saying things more to convince themselves than anyone else. Jate is a threat to what some people want, a very real, very big, very IN YOUR FACE threat, and they are not over by a longshot. They never will be. Jack and Kate just are! Period! There's no just Kate and there's no just Jack - there is Jack and Kate. That's the way it is, no matter how badly others try to spin it away. Jate isn't going anywhere! IMO, there is really only two ships floating around anymore and others should find a nice dock somewhere to hang out for the duration. - Doc

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He’s now ascended into rugged Big Damn Hero status, sacrificing himself for the sake of the folk on the helicopter and returning to the island, even managing to jam in a kiss for Kate all the while. He whispered something in her ear before jumping into the ocean below, this being the mysterious promise that drives Jack crazy in “Something Nice Back Home”.

I'm not sure what people are watching on Thursday nights. - Franci

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The thing is you can't let yourself go crazy over all this stuff. We Skaters have to put up with the fact that Jack and Kate exist. Sure they feel like a big ugly stain in the middle of an otherwise incredible story, but we can't wish them away as figments of our Imagination. Jaters, maybe it's time you did the same. You'll save yourselves a lot of heartache. Plus, it's not like you don't get this, deep down, in those moments when you're accidentally honest with yourselves.

people can keep saying whatever they want,screaming it doesn't make it real. - Franci

Who says we can't agree on anything?