Wednesday, February 10, 2010

KATE, INTERRUPTED

Alone I can never be.
Others before me going and away from me flowing
Were weaving, weaving at the I that is me.

- Rainer Maria Rilke
As we begin this long season's journey into the end of LOST, each milestone we pass is like a sad old friend we're saying goodbye to. It occurred to me watching What Kate Does that we may have been watching the last Kate-centric episode of LOST ever.



Kate-centrics have their own peculiar flavor out in the LOST-o-sphere. LOST fans have a decidedly love-hate relationship with their freckled femme fatale. Actually, a lot of the time, it seems like they mostly have a hate relationship with her. Message boards the day after a Kate-centric episode will inevitably erupt in a collective fanboy bitchfest. They haaaate Kaaaate!!!! They wish she would die already. Because she's useless. And they want her to Shut. Up. Kate.



I don't get it myself. But I can definitely tell that they don't like her.



Maybe the writers have to take some responsibility for not doing their best by Kate over the years. It's true they have written her into a bunch of shitty little corners - like making her a father killer who doesn't really much care that she did that, or by having her raise Claire's baby and lie about it, or by having her - incredibly - not be able to decide between Jack or Sawyer all these years. That last one has definitely ruffled the most feathers.

But perhaps we should get into that later.

Early in the episode, OtherKate notices OtherJack yakking on his cellphone, and she looks to be momentarily stunned by a flash of recognition.



It might seem like she's only remembering the guy whose pocket she just picked on the plane. Or maybe she's doing a double take and asking herself,



"Hey, isn't that the guy from that show LOST?"

But it happens again when she pulls out the stuffed Shamu from the luggage she has stolen from Claire.



And again when she first hears Claire's baby's name is Aaron.



It is becoming clear, in a very not clear kind of way, that OtherLOST shares a very porous boundary with the world of LOST as we have known it. There is leakage across the border - a nebulous, maybe subconscious, kind of cognition by the OtherLosties of the road never taken. It's exactly the kind of thing that makes the puzzlement of OtherLOST such an inviting game.


It was interesting to see in this episode that Kate and OtherKate seemed, on the surface at least, to be almost exactly the same person. We saw last week that many OtherLosties are different, but this does not seem to be the case with Kate. Like our old beloved Kate, OtherKate is a murderer on the run, and like original flavored Kate, she is a damn fine escape artist. She's almost a girl version of Jason Bourne.



Like Kate, OtherKate has a fractious relationship with motor vehicles.





She is well acquainted with the best methods of extricating oneself from handcuffs.

OtherKate also uses the same aliases as Kate. In this episode, as in Born to Run, she called herself "Joan Hart". I don't know what that means ... except maybe that OtherKate was a fan of OtherSabrina, the Teenage Witch?



It does make sense that Kate would like that show. After all, Melissa Joan Hart's Aunt Zelda on the show (top left) is Kate's mother!



OtherKate was similar to Kate in many ways. We have always known that Kate is a helpful person.


She hauled the farmer to safety in Tabula Rasa (after she'd crashed his truck),


and she put the airmask on the Marshall during the crash in The Pilot (after she'd stolen the keys to the cuffs),



and she saved the bank manager from getting shot in Whatever the Case May Be (after she'd robbed his bank).



This is the pattern to Kate.Whenever she does a person wrong, she turns around and pours her heart into helping them recover from whatever it is she just did.




Kate may be a world class screwup, but when she remembers where it is, her heart is always in the right place. The thing is, a lot of the time she forgets. And when she does - watch out!



In Season Three's Left Behind, Kate met Cassidy in a gas station, then went off on a Girls in Cars adventure before convincing her pregnant friend to do the right thing by her baby - who turned out to be Sawyer's daughter.



In What Kate Does, Kate went through Claire's bag in a gas station - after a Girls in Cars adventure - and then convinced her pregnant friend to do right by her baby - who turned out to be Kate's sorta kinda "son".



The symmetry of the seasons is beginning to synch up. Old references are bubbling up, reminding us of questions we never realized we forgot to ask. The same baffling patterns that we remember from seasons past are re-weaving themselves into our new altered reality.



In Do No Harm, Kate delivered Aaron on the jungle floor. In OtherLOST, she made sure that Claire made it to the hospital to have him.



In Maternity Leave, Ethan Rom was very pleasant to Claire, as he prepared to rip her baby from her in the Others' medical dungeon.




In OtherLOST, Ethan has kept his maiden name Goodspeed, but otherwise seems unchanged.


He still has a serial killer face, he's still a doctor, and he offers up the same kind of unctuous encouragement to the frightened child-mother as he did back then. But does OtherEthan have an evil agenda? Hard to tell, although the name of the hospital might be a clue - Angel of Mercy, the creepy venue well known to any fan of Dexter.



Maybe they're trying to tell us that even though Ethan is super extra creepy, his motives for doing evil are always good.



Claire goes to the home of the infamous "nice couple in L.A." but finds only a weepy woman too distraught about her lousy husband to give a young girl the courtesy of a phone call before she flew across the Pacific eight months pregnant to a city where she knew no one.



The woman's name, we can learn from credits, was Lindsey Baskum - our first anagram from OtherLOST!



It works out to "Used by Malkins", as in the famed psychic Malkins of Seasons 1 and 2, who conspired with the extrasensory universe to finagle Claire and Aaron onto Flight 815. It seems that all of LOST's intricate details are being copied over onto OtherLOST.



Someone made a chart years ago, showing the ganglia-like net of connections between the characters prior to them coming to the Island.



It's out of date now that we've been back and forth to the future so many times, but it's still interesting to see how thickly this tangled web has been woven, right from the start. Over time it has only gotten denser, but for Kate, as the chart above shows, one connection has been constant. As has almost always been the case, in a Kate-centric episode, Sawyer's story takes a dramatic turn.



In this episode, we see Sawyer more lost than we have ever seen him. He has cut all emotional ties. He makes it clear to the templefolk that they can kill anyone they want - they aren't his friends. He orders Kate not to follow him. He runs.



In the past, Kate would have let him do just that, but this time she follows.



And there's a funny thing about that. Now I know many readers aren't familiar with the dark underbelly of the online LOST spoiler-sphere, but suffice to say there is at least one individual out there who has made quite a career out of stealing Darlton's secrets and broadcasting them to the worldwide web. For some reason, this episode seemed to bring out a new degree of interactivity from the spoiler snitches. Not content to merely spoil the facts of the episode, for this one they decided to actually pre-spoil our interpretation of the episode. We were informed, in no uncertain terms some weeks ago, that in this very episode, Kate and Sawyer's story together would come to an unequivocal end. Forevah.



Naturally, having gotten wind of this prediction, I was curious to see how it would all work out. It seems an odd point in the series for such an endpoint to arrive, but stranger things have certainly happened on LOST. The title of this episode, What Kate Does, was an obvious cross reference to the Season Two episode where we first found out What Kate Did. You may or may not have realized it, depending on how closely you follow this sort of thing, but that particular episode was a pivotal one for the love triangle.



In Season Two, Jack pulled a desperately confused Kate towards him for a kiss, a kiss she ran from, with a rather horrified expression, straight to the side of Sawyer.



In Season Six, Jack pulls Kate to him again, but this time she barely stops for a quick goodbye. She's running to Sawyer again, and this time when Jack goes in for the kiss, all he gets is a mouthful of hair. It is a striking change in tone.



Hey, now, wait a minute! Is it possible the spoiler snitches got the whole thing backwards and the angle of the triangle that's shutting down is actually ... Jack and Kate?



Forevah?

In What Kate Did, Kate and Sawyer had a famous scene where she opened up to him about her secret. She thought he was asleep when she confessed to him that she killed her father, and that she saw her father somehow in Sawyer, and that she couldn't let herself feel anything for him because of that.


In What Kate Does, Kate and Sawyer again have a beautiful scene, alone, this time on the very dock where Sawyer once convinced Juliet to stay and keep him company. And again, secrets are revealed. Kate tells Sawyer, finally, about her mission to return Aaron to his true mother. Sawyer tells Kate something that he had never even told Juliet - that he was planning to give her a ring.



Unfortunately, he doesn't explain to Kate why exactly he never did ask Juliet to marry him back when the poor soul was fretting herself into a lather about Kate's return. And he doesn't explain why he buried the damn thing so deep into the foundation of his house that he needed a wrecking bar and a sledgehammer to retrieve it. Who was he hiding it from exactly - Juliet or himself?



But he does tell her why he feels so guilty, and perhaps what he is telling her, much like she did back in What Kate Did, is that from now on, whenever he looks at Kate, he will always remember why Juliet died.



It was on that very dock that he convinced Juliet to stay with him in 1974. Josh Holloway's performance is heartbreaking in this scene, as Sawyer turns to Kate and reminds her just why he tried to cling to Juliet in the first place ... because he didn't want to be alone.


Much is left unspoken, but it really isn't hard to read between the tears. Sawyer's feelings for Kate didn't kill Juliet in The Incident. They started to kill her all the way back in LaFleur, when he first tried to plug the hole Kate had left, by keeping Juliet on the Island that would become her grave. And to drive the point home even deeper, he reminds Kate - and the audience - that Kate had done exactly the same thing, and for exactly the same reason.



Kate breaks down into sobs. But why exactly? Is she feeling the enormity of Sawyer's loss, of her own, of what they have lost together?



Sawyer, nearly a zombie, leaves Kate and walks mournfully back into the ghost of the house he had lived in with Juliet. He plans to stay alone in his abandoned DharmaTown, making a home with his memories.



I know the poor man needs his space, but he's going to have to snap out of it pretty quick. We've only got three months left! I don't want to see him dressing up in her clothes and building a shrine to her in his attic or anything like that.



I've noticed a creeping necrophilia in the romantic tastes of the online LOST fandom, but I really hope they don't have Sawyer go all Norman on us. I've seen those avis the Sawyer/Juliet fans have been circulating, and I know you all are grieving. But when you find yourself kvelling over something like this:



... It's time to let it go, girls. Trust me.



That is the fundamental question of the Buddha Dharma.

Is it a joyous thing to live long?
Life is not that way.

Is it sorrowful to die after a short life?

Life is not that way.

The question is how we shall live.

- Dogen



Early in the episode, Sawyer is bitter as he and Kate watch Sayid return from the dead. The good woman Juliet is dead. The Iraqi torturer who shoots kids has been given a second life. Or has he? Just as Kate's theme is running, Sayid's theme is torture. He continues to reap his karmic penalty, even in his reincarnation.



The mystery of what happened to Sayid only deepens in this episode. Again there was a reprise from Season One. In Solitary, Rousseau tortured the torturer in her primitive chamber of horrors.


Our new Samurai Other, Dogen, also favors electroshock therapy on his subject. And like Rousseau, he is not looking for answers from Sayid. He is "diagnosing" him.


It is not clear afterwards whether or not Sayid has passed this test. Some say yes, some say no.



John and Yoko don't really seem like straight shooters to me. Their agenda is impossible to discern. What are they testing for, how do they obtain their answers, what do they put in the pill they prescribe for their patient?



Pill popper Jack comes along and sacrificially throws himself on the poison grenade, but that doesn't tell us anything either, because Dogen karate chops him into upchucking it. We can see that Dogen doesn't want Jack to swallow the pill, but does that mean we can assume it would have killed Sayid?


What happened to Sayid when they drowned him in the dirty water? We are told that he was "claimed", although that definition is only approximated from the Japanese word misuru, which translates more as "bewitched" or "charmed". He has been diagnosed with an Infection, one that will spread to his heart like a darkness until he is no more. So is it the Infection that has "claimed" him?


The Infection is another dropped story thread from earlier seasons that is now being picked up and woven back into the tapestry. In Season One we heard Rousseau tell how The Sickness claimed the lives of her crew.

The exact details have always been sketchy, but the best guess generally was that the crew had been altered by their visit to the temple in such a way that Rousseau was forced to kill them. Of course there has always been the alternate explanation that perhaps Rousseau lost her mind and just murdered her crew for no reason. Which could mean, it would seem, that Rousseau may have been the one who actuallly caught The Infection. After all, her new doppelganger in the story is Claire and we are told outright that Claire has in fact become one of the Infected.

"The plague had swallowed up everything and everyone. No longer were there individual destinies; only a collective destiny, made of plague and the emotions shared by all." - Albert Camus, The Plague
What is The Infection? Images of disease have been ever present on the Island throughout the story.



Injections and vaccines are a big part of LOST imagery.




Ethan injected Claire. Kelvin instructed Desmond to take daily injections down in the Swan Hatch. Charlie found injections and Claire gave them to Aaron. Juliet buried vaccines beneath a tree to create an elaborate ruse, back in her Other days. There is the "cabin fever" sickness that afflicts the Kahana.

The Dharma initiative innoculated all their new recruits.



There has been an ongoing theme of illness on the Island, and of people taking measures to ward it off. It hasn't been a focus of the plot recently, but it seems to be making a comeback. Does it have any substance to it, or is it another one of the Island's many illusions?



It certainly makes sense to look at The Infection as a metaphor - although what it might be a metaphor of is not clear. Infection is an evil thing. If The Infection is creeping towards Sayid's heart, perhaps we can expect to see him becoming ever darker and more evil as the story continues. But that metaphor doesn't seem to fit. We've been watching Sayid's heart darken since the story began, and especially the last few years. There's nothing new in that. It seems to me the important place to look for clues is - as always - in the connections.


Sayid's story has become bound inextricably to Ben's. Ben is the man who made Sayid a professional killer, a job that turned his heart into an icy black rock. Sayid is the man who mortally wounded Ben as a boy, forcing Ben to be brought to the temple - and presumably drowned in the same waters as Sayid has just been. Was Ben "claimed" as a boy?


And what about Claire, who we are told has the same illness as Sayid? Did Claire in fact die the day her yellow house exploded around her ... and was her long walk off into the jungle really a trip to the temple, to the same mikveh where Ben and Sayid were also claimed?



If Ben is one of the claimants, that might explain a lot. It might explain what turned the sweet bespectacled boy into the heartless killer and conniver we all love to hate. But it would also seem, if Ben is infected, that The Infection doesn't kill people and it doesn't make them unable to love or to feel. It may be that what the Infection does is imbue its host body with some power that others lack. Was Ben able to kill Jacob precisely because he was "claimed"? Was The Infection the agent that turned Ben into The Loophole?


The choice of the word "claiming" is also interesting. It sounds like a game move. It reminds me of Backgammon, the Official Board Game of LOST, where if a playing piece is left unprotected, it may be hit by an opposing piece and taken off the board. A player cannot continue to bear off his other pieces until he reclaims the lost piece and returns it to play. Is that what's happening here?


It's another indication that the choices we saw Jacob making in last season's finale were the equivalent of Jacob assembling his team. When Sawyer tries to escape from the temple, Dogen's reaction is to protect him. He orders his soldiers to hold their fire. He tells Sawyer, almost plaintively, that he "has to stay."



Later in the jungle, when his men want to get rid of Jin, they are stopped from harming him because he "might be one of them." The suspicion continues to grow that the reason this group of survivors has been brought - and brought back - to this Island is because they are the essential necessary playing pieces in a gigantic cosmic game they don't even realize they are playing.



We are back among the language of games, which is one of the favorite dialects of LOST. I'm sure everyone sat up and took notice when the scene came up on Dogen sitting behind his desk contemplating a baseball.



Baseballs are always important totems on LOST. In one of Kate's great flashbacks, Born to Run, a baseball (cryptically autographed by a name that looks like "John Locke") is among the items she and Tom retrieve from their time capsule. Is this baseball there only to remind us of that one?



Maybe it means that Dogen, like Jack, is a Red Sox fan. Maybe we'll see OtherDogen sitting next row down from Other Jack at Fenway Park in some sideways flash a few episodes from now.

Or maybe it's a clue to Dogen's past. Maybe in his pre-Island life, he came to the Island only after he got let go by the Hanshin Tigers. It could be a shoutout to Deep Space Nine's Benjamin Sisko and the many deep existential truths he found hidden within that little 108 stitched wonder.

"I've tried all the major religions, and most of the minor ones. I've worshipped Buddha, Allah, Brahma, Vishnu, Siva, trees, mushrooms, and Isadora Duncan ... I believe in the Church of Baseball."- Annie Savoy, Bull Durham
It could be a reminder that baseball is the most Eastern of Western games.



This year's Other is named after Dogen - a 13th century Japanese monk who was a great proponent of the practice of zazen, or sitting meditation. By training the body to be still, the mind becomes like a mirror, reflecting in itself a transcendant enlightenment that cannot be described in words. Dogen said, "you hear the sound of the dharma.... with the body first and the mind last."

Zen monks have developed arts to help them attain this most indescribable of states - archery, for instance, and brush painting. For Americans, perhaps the closest approximation of this kind of active meditation might be baseball. As Yogi Berra explained it, "You can't think and hit at the same time." You need to shut off the mind to let the perfect self shine through and do its thing.



This is what, I think, Jack Shephard is currently trying to do. He isn't thinking any longer. He's just acting on instinct, without any more need to try and control the outcomes of his actions. It's a big change, as we saw last week, to the point that Jack almost seems like more of a different person than any of the people in OtherLOST do. He's like a 12 Stepper who has finally gone all in and accepted that all he needs to do is "let go and let God."

"I am in no way interested in immortality, but only in the taste of tea."
- Lu t’ung
After Dogen heimlichs the pill out of him, he offers Jack tea. And even though he knows this guy just conjured up a poison pill for his friend, Jack accepts. You almost get the sense that if Dogen wanted to handcuff Jack to a polar bear, this new Jack would go along with it, just to see what kind of head trip it might turn out to be.



Whatever it is that Dogen is selling, and for whatever reason, Jack is buying it. Dogen explains to Jack that he doesn't speak English in front of his people because it's important that he keep himself isolated from them. Leaders do not get to mingle with the minions. It's something Jack has known for some time.



Until now, he never really had to face up to the implications of that body art he wanted so badly: "He walks among us but is not of us." In other words, Jack Shephard, this is your life.



Jack didn't choose this life. It was thrust upon him, against and in spite of his own free will. And what's making it even worse is that he doesn't even understand yet what it is he doesn't get to have any choice about. The never ending dilemma of fate vs. volition continues to generate new ripples within the story.



Jack and Locke, Kate and Sawyer, Hurley and Sayid, Sun and Jin - all were brought to the Island by Fate. Dogen says that he was also "brought" to the Island. It's an Island of immigrants, where everyone is imported from somewhere else. There are no indigenous people. Who brings them there and for what purpose? That is the question we are now circling in an ever decreasing orbit, but it doesn't seem to me that Free Will has much of anything to do with it.



We saw in OtherLOST that Kate is fated always to be a part of Aaron's story. OtherClaire names her son the same way Claire did back in Exodus. The name just blurts out of her: "Is my baby ok? Is Aaron ok?" We have heard her say almost exactly the same lines on the Island. Both times, she says that she has no idea how the name came to be. It just happened. Claire never chose Aaron's name. It was destined that he be named Aaron. It's a punctuation point that's been made twice now, so I am guessing there is a reason it is important.



OtherLOST also provides a window into just how much things stay the same, even in decoherent coexisting parallel realities. Horace and Amy's baby boy must have been evacuated off of the Island just prior to The Incident, but even though he never became Ethan Rom, the Other Man, he still became the world's creepiest OBGYN. And he still ended up poking around and taking an interest in Claire's unborn son.



At some point after The Incident, Christian Shephard apparently still played around on his wife with a mistress in Australia, still fathered and abandoned a daughter. Claire still went on to become a teenage mother, who handed over her credit card to the woman who just carjacked her while she was running from a U. S. Marshall.



... proving once again exactly why children having children is such a very bad idea, whatever reality they find themselves in.

Claire still wanted to find adoptive parents in America, and she still ended up deciding to keep her baby. Kate, as we know, still became a criminal and a fugitive with a heart of gold.



The question that interests me is this: In a world where all the choices were different, why did Ethan, and Kate, and Claire, and Christian, all end up making the same decisions? And those are just the ones we know about. I admit that I am excited to see what has become of all the OtherLosties as well. I think what we learn about their OtherLives is going to be the key to unlocking just what role Fate and Free Will are playing in this mind game.



However tenuous its existence, Free Will is a concept near and dear to all our hearts. Most of the time we don't even care if it's true or not. We just choose to believe that we have the power to choose.



The pill that Dogen wants Sayid to take must be taken willingly, or apparently it will not do its intended work. But Sayid has acquiesced his free will to Jack and is asking to be told what to do. Since being claimed, Sayid doesn't want to think for himself any longer. So while he may take the pill willingly, if Jack tells him to, it can't really be said that it's Sayid's free will that is choosing. Jack, on the other hand, does demonstrate free will when he tries to take the pill himself. But Dogen's quick reaction immediately prevents his will from working its way.



Although Fate seems to be the power player thus far in this story, it's impossible for us to rule out the dark horse potential of Free Will. In Season Two's What Kate Did, one of LOST's most enigmatic moments happened when Kate and Sawyer witnessed the dark horse in the forest. That magical image has never been explained, or even referenced, in all the episodes since.


In What Kate Does, we see these same two characters attempting to exercise their free will. Sawyer chooses to leave the temple grounds, despite Dogen's command that he can not. Kate chooses to run after him, and she chooses to lie to Jack about her true intentions.

It's interesting that she makes another choice in this episode - one that seems to have flown under the radar of much of the fandom. Perhaps no one expected to find it buried in the middle of an episode this way, or delivered in such an understated way, and that explains the lack of fanfare it has received. As they are about to go their separate ways in the jungle, Jin asks, "Who do you care about, Kate?"



Kate's answer is that she is going with Sawyer, that she has lied about bringing him back, and that she intends for him and her to figure things out "together" from here on out. Jin is now the only other person who knows that, in the interminable question of "Jack or Sawyer", Kate has finally made her choice.



The only problem, of course, is that Sawyer has also made his. While Kate has finally made up her mind about where her heart lies, Sawyer has just shut down his heart and thrown it into the bottom of the sea. Sawyer doesn't want to be together with anything but his memories right now. The trauma of Juliet's death has convinced him that he is meant to be alone. Just as we saw him do in Confidence Man, he has shut Kate out and marooned himself on the island of his own despair.


No one saves us but ourselves. No one can and no one may. We ourselves must walk the path. - Buddha

It is impossible for me to believe that any character will be left entirely alone at the end of this tale. An episode about Kate reminds us of her connections to Sawyer and to Aaron, and through Aaron to Claire, and through Claire to Ethan and Rousseau, and through Rousseau to Sayid, and through Sayid to Ben, and through Ben to Jacob. The characters write one anothers stories. The past stories we have seen on LOST echo back into the story as we continue going forward. The unknown new reality bleeds into the reality we thought we knew all along. Everything is fluid. All the elements are still in flux. They haven't started yet to cohere into one consistent truth.


We're still being peppered with questions.

What took place on the Island during the dead zone of 2004 - 2007, when none of the Losties were there? We know the timeline up until 2004 is still in place, since Aldo makes an appearance to remind us of his encounter with Kate in Season Three's Not in Portland.



Why does he keep telling his buddy to shut up? What is the big secret?



And speaking of dates,why was the date on Aaron's sonogram exactly one month later than the fateful Flight 815's original date? Is everything in OtherLOST off by a factor of +1?



We don't have time to stop and linger over the questions that never stop multiplying. The playing pieces are moving around the board now. The game is in motion. Claire has been brought back onto the board, remodeled into someone intriguingly different.



Sawyer has called a time out.



Kate has finally focussed all her better angels and has begun her final quest.



Jack is still downloading input from Destiny Central, but it seems only a matter of time until he makes a bold gambit.



We know they are all cross Island from the psychodrama still unfolding in and around Jacob's bloody foot. What will happen when their worlds collide with that of NotJohnLocke?



At the same time, the co-reality of OtherLOST seems poised to begin spiraling around and into the reality of our Island as we've known it. I haven't got the faintest frakking clue what's going on around here, but damn! This thing is fascinating.





104 comments:

Kyle from Kentucky said...

YES

The return of the jackface! POISON?!?!?!?!?!

Charlotte K said...

Ben was not "claimed" or he could not have been made leader of the Others, surely, for all those years. Just because we don't know Dogen doesn't mean Ben doesn't.

Anonymous said...

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought of Ben Sisko when I saw Dogen playing with the baseball. ;p

Always a pleasure to read your recaps, Fish. Thank you for being one of the few who doesn't dismiss Kate as "stupid" or as a "slut", but instead delves into the fascinating character that this woman really is, and gives us new insights to ponder.

Anonymous said...

I'm really enjoying Kate so far this season, in both her incarnations. She does try to take care of people and often gets rejected for her efforts - and I'm glad to see her active, rather than just being a ping-pong ball.

I liked Jin's question to her, though I thought it was interesting coming from him, since they've had so little interaction up to now.

I hope this is the end of Jate; it sure looks that way. I have no problem with Kate waiting for Sawyer, or with them gradually finding their way back together ... I just can't stomach it if she keeps bouncing back and forth. I hope she really is on her quest to find Claire, and uses her time - alone.

Anonymous said...

"Like our old beloved Kate, OtherKate is a murderer on the run, and like original flavored Kate, she is a damn fine escape artist."

How do you know she is a murderer? She never says she is. I've got my money on the fact that she has been falsely charged.

Annie B. Robyn said...

Okay now Fish, I have lurked your blog for years now, but I cannot hold back any longer how much joy I get from your posts, which are by far (by way far) the best around. I always let out a long squee of "SQUEE!" every time you have a new post. Though, I have a serious squeeing problem. Not that it would diminish the pleasure of reading your review-caps if I did not have this problem.

You always make me appreciate these episodes all the more. Any small reservations I had for What Kate Does immediately depleted upon reading this. Obviously. I mean, maybe not obviously to you, but to me. Hi. Good stuff.

sydb said...

i loved this episode, and you hit every mark, every point that i saw as important, and brought out many new interesting insights!

thank you fish.

but like charlotte, i dont think ben was claimed. remember, the water was brown when they brought him, maybe that has something to do with sayid being claimed.

Crystal said...

Awesome recap, Fish! Your observations and insights never fail to make me think twice.

Anonymous said...

http://www.npr.org/blogs/monkeysee/2010/02/the_doubleedged_sword_of_devot.html

I invite all you shippers to read the above and reflect on how it may apply to you.

Anonymous said...

cool story bro

Freckles said...

Amazing recap Fish!

I love the way you explained the ring part,Kate and Sawyer's moments.Perfectly said!!

Matarreyes said...

Awesome, Fish. Specially THIS:

"Sawyer's feelings for Kate didn't kill Juliet in The Incident. They started to kill her all the way back in LaFleur, when he first tried to plug the hole Kate had left, by keeping Juliet on the Island that would become her grave. And to drive the point home even deeper, he reminds Kate - and the audience - that Kate had done exactly the same thing, and for exactly the same reason."

See, other recappers? It´s not that difficut! Just think and... well, think again, and you will figure out what the writers are aiming at ;)

whatdemydid said...

Wonderful review fish! As always!
All the other recapper should read this and get a clue!
Loved every bit of it!

Anonymous said...

Nice review overall. But there's one thing you need to come to grips with, Sawyer and Kate have been over before they even begun. No amount of spin can change the fact that Sawyer will forever be tied to Juliet now. Kate will end up alone or if some miracle happens may even end up with Jack. But there is absolutely no way for her to end up with Sawyer. The sooner you come to that realization, the faster your reviews will be taken seriously.

Anonymous said...

LOL to that last anonymous. It's so great that you have no basis whatsoever for your argument and Fish just wrote a magnificent essay to back up hers. No, I'm sure YOU are right though!

The suliet bitteristas are making a spectacle of themselves lately. As if Fish's reviews aren't taken seriously already LOL!
- Dr.L

Anonymous said...

Thanks as always for the review. I half dread Kate episodes, because I know the boards will erupt with a fresh round of "Kate sux!" And sometimes there's more to it than just the reflexive distaste much of the fandom has for this particular character. Kate episodes do sometimes sail right off the edge of believability, as with the trial in season 4. And the interchanges with Claire here are pretty hard to believe as well--a problem that could have been remedied with some hint that, perhaps, Claire also has a momentary twinge of recognition. (Although perhaps Claire, as not touched by Jacob, won't experience the bleedthrough across timelines.)

However many bases this episode touched, I'm still left with the feeling that, to some extent, Kate's episodes don't receive the same care or attention that the episodes of the More Important characters (ahem) receive.

That said, I enjoyed the hints that we got about Kate's true romantic feelings. I dearly hope that FB's interpretation of this episode is correct. I loved the callbacks that we got in LA X and in this episode to other moments between Kate and Sawyer during their first stay on the island, and the reminders that the ties between these two are deep and complex--so much more than Just Really Hot Chemistry. And I still love Badass Action Kate, even if her Action is sometimes a bit misdirected.

To the anon poster who sent the link to the monkeysee blog: Thanks, but I think you're missing the point. The writers of Lost themselves have been stoking interest in Kate's romantic choice throughout the series and promising a final resolution to it. We're not trying to drive the bus. We've been on a long trip, trying to divine the destination, aided by clues and hints from the drivers themselves. We're not creating a story out of whole cloth or trying to force a different direction on the writers. Will we be disappointed if the romantic outcome isn't the one we've hoped for? Of course. But so will all those who have placed their hopes on, say, the return of Annie--assuming, of course, that Annie never makes another reappearance.

lizzie

Anonymous said...

Well skaters do have an advantage in the fact that kate is not dead lol. Most sulieteers whant sawyer to die so he can join juliet as a rotting corpse and this is from someone who liked suliet

Anonymous said...

Hey fish,
love your recaps as always.

I just wondered, why you havn't brought up the possibiltiy that Kate might be innocent in OtherLost.
That she is on the run, because she might protect her mother or was set up by wayne. just saying...

another thing, i kind of missed, because it struck me as the first similarity, was the skate scene in the house, which had some resmblence to the scene in the economist, where Kate is pointing a gun at sawyer and after that, they have this talk about playing house aka staying on the island.
and how this might have played into the scene on the dock with Kate, where sawyer talked about how he asked Juliet to stay 3 years ago, cos he was alone, cos Kate was gone.

this ring would have been hers, the house would have been theirs,
so for a good part, she is crying over this missed chance, IT.

LostTvFan said...

“Not content to merely spoil the facts of the episode, for this one they decided to actually pre-spoil our interpretation of the episode. We were informed, in no uncertain terms some weeks ago, that in this very episode, Kate and Sawyer's story together would come to an unequivocal end. Forevah.”

LOL Fish! Well given the episode and all the recent Kate and Sawyer spoilers, on island and in the AU storyline, I have to ask Dark and his gang of eight – How’s that working for you? Wipe the egg off your faces and cowboy up, you may have the inside track on polar bears, numbers, and time travel but you don’t know squat about how romance is written.

As for complaints about the episode, this was Damon’s response via Twitter:

”For those of you complaining of "filler." Seriously. PLEASE WATCH NCIS: LOS ANGELES. I promise not to hold it against you."

Anonymous said...

For the 'Anonymous' that was responding to the 'Anonymous' above her, well that 'Anonymous' turns out to be me. As for the basis of my argument, I just have to point you to the countless other recaps who concluded that Sawyer and Kate are over. But hey what do they know? Fishbiscuit is the only one that really understands Lost after all.

I think Fishbiscuit has great recaps. I just happen to disagree with her on certain aspects. I believe that when it comes to Kate and Sawyer, Fishbiscuit's preferences clouds her judgment and her ability to be impartial in reviewing certain scenes.

I sincerely hope nobody is offended by what I said. From what it seems in the forum, everyone is pretty good at dishing out criticism to opposing viewpoints. Hopefully, they can accept it if someone said 'maybe you've got it all backwards'.

Anonymous said...

"As for the basis of my argument, I just have to point you to the countless other recaps who concluded that Sawyer and Kate are over. But hey what do they know?"

Certainly it doesn't prove they're right. I'm more amazed at their literal interpretations in this case and anyone's absolute belief that Sawyer and Kate will be no more. I'd have thought more people would know better with a show like Lost. At least Fishbiscuit didn't stop using her brain cells on this one. I think it does seem more likely Sawyer and Kate are on their own time out for now...it's obvious Kate loves him and it's obvious that Sawyer didn't love Juliet enough. Just as soon as he can forgive himself for something he couldn't help, he'll most likely be heading back to the fugitive that stole his heart so that they can "figure it out together" in the end. It was hardly a throwaway line, there aren't really any on this show.

Love your connections and references to previous events Fish, I like it that the writers are doing this too. It's great to see badass-with-a-heart Kate again, helping Claire in the Othertimeline when she could more easily have abandoned her. And striking out on her own on the island again too. I hope she does continue to search for Claire, especially since she's heartbroken and her mind needs to be elsewhere for a bit but even more because it's a story outside of the triangle (though disintegrating) which her character needs.

Overall a thoroughly enjoyable and thought-provoking analysis as usual. Lol at your John and Yoko by the way, very appropriate. And I always love your use of quotes, but I particularly like Dogen's quote here and reflecting on the characters' choices at this stage in the game. Looking forward more than ever to seeing what they continue to do and to reading your thoughts on it Fish.

- Midnight

Anonymous said...

"Certainly it doesn't prove they're right."

I agree. But when a dozen or so recappers all have say the same thing regarding the romance in their reviewsas opposed to Fish and maybe 1 or two others, I'll go with the dozen. Fish is excellent when it comes to analyzing the Mythology. I can't say the same for the romance.

"it's obvious that Sawyer didn't love Juliet enough."

Very curious how you reached that conclusion after that breakdown on the dock (the fact that Sawyer cried for the first time on the show might not mean much to many, but it sure proves a lot to me), the confession he was about to propose, the I love You's, "I'm doing it for her".

"he'll most likely be heading back to the fugitive that stole his heart so that they can "figure it out together" in the end. It was hardly a throwaway line, there aren't really any on this show."

"I've always been with you"

Anonymous said...

"I agree. But when a dozen or so recappers all have say the same thing regarding the romance in their reviewsas opposed to Fish and maybe 1 or two others, I'll go with the dozen"

"recappers" seems to be more and more likely random people who happens to watch the show, have nothing to do with their free time, and makes a lost review for the current episode. For the past years Sawyer and Kate have been "Over" in pretty much every episode were they had a nasty argument as "dozen" recappers claimed so. On the other hand, Fish and few others "delusional/biased" skaters were pretty sure it was classic storytelling for a pair. Guess who turned out to be right? After Eggtown it was revealed that Kate was keeping a promise for Sawyer and it was one of the reasons why her and Jack broke the engagement. In the finale they get the spectacular kiss that leaves everyone talking about.
In S5 "dozen" recappers claimed that Kate never cared about Sawyer, nad again...they were OVER, something IMPOSSIBLE to reconnect. And then there were Skaters and Fish, who believed Kate was heart broke and probably kept Aaron as substitute for Sawyer. Guess who turned out right again?? Uhmmm.... yeah Skaters.
Not only Fish and Skater's insane POV were proven right by the episode (Whatever happened happened) in which we found out Kate spent 3 years taking care of Clementine and was HEARTBROKEN over Sawyer and took Aaron because she NEEDED HIM to fix her broken heart; Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse confirmed EVERYTHING. They also said out loud that between Sawyer and Juliet there was'nt any spark unlike Sawyer and Kate and since she came back their chemistry locked in. The also decide to write a moment in which Sawyer looks at Kate during a speech about living forver with your loved one. Later Juliet dump his ass with the line "Just because we love each other it doesn't mean we are meant to be together". And Skaters predicted everything of this, guess who's got the clue of how romance works ;)
Now in this scene at the dock, Sawyer never say a nice word about Juliet, about how much he loved her, and how happy he was with her...nothing. He basically says he blame himself for making her stay because he was afraid of being alone. He tries to make Kate understand that thins can't go back the way there were and that he cannot bring himself to be around her (declined her offer to stick together to find Claire). He can't accept the fact that a woman died because of his selfish reasons and that reason was Kate being not there. Just like Kate did with Jack and Aaron.
If this was real life then I agree that it wouldn't be cool for Sawyer and Kate to get together but this is a freaking tv show were 5 seasons (yeah 5...) were invested on Kate and Sawyer on again-off again relationship fillEd with misunderstanding, mistakes and obstacles (which btw Juliet's death and Sawyer's guilt are one of it). I'm not arrogant as someone else is to say I'm 100% sure Kate and Sawyer will be together in the end (they can all die for what we know) but it's clear that Kate is in love with Sawyer and he's the man she wants to be with, the triangle I suppose it will be resolved and the only way Kate ends up with Jack is because she's going again for the second best(something already happened). Sawyer has his journey now, he has to get over his guilt and realize that he's not meant to be alone but with the woman he always wanted to be, the one he had to replace and is now back.
Juliet is dead and if the writers thought of Suliet as the real OTP then they'd never killed her off and encourage her to find another job. They'd kept her live(and they could if they wanted to) and make them live happily ever after.

I guess we'll see in the end(or maybe even earlier) who was right; Fish and her crazy/delusional followers who prooved themselves right more than once, or dozen recappers.

Anonymous said...

To the anon who has no argument of her own - just because a bunch of boring, predictable bloggers all say the same boring predictable things doesn't mean they are right. If it is so clear to you, why can't you make an actual argument? I guess you just like to let others do your thinking for you.

The great Jeff Jensen thought the Jack&Kate scene was like some kind of Mom & Dad Brady moment. He sounded like a 12 year old fangirl and not even a bright one. But I guess you include him in your non-argument about why Fish is wrong?

I will never cease to be amazed that such a smart show has attracted such a dumb fanbase. As this anon proves, most of them are completely incapable of thinking for themselves for one minute.

they love FB's recaps so they can't stay away. But somehow they think that her insight stops at the mythology. There's no way she could be reading the shipper stuff right also,because - um, because - um, because all the dumber,duller recappers don't agree with her. LOL.

I am so glad I'm along for this ride with you Fish. The home stretch is going to be so much fun, in more ways than one.

Anonymous said...

First of all, I never said that Skaters or Fish were delusional. I just think some of Fish's interpretations are biased. As for your explanation, I can understand you're a fan of Sawyer and Kate and there's nothing wrong with that. I also respect the fact that you admit you're not 100% sure on the possible outcomes. But I totally disagree with your interpretation of anything that is Sawyer and Juliet.

The main problem here is that each side will be looking at things from their own perspective and will find fault with the opposing view in some way. This is my issue with Fish's recaps. I think she does a wonderful job overall, but her bias shows when certain topics like: Sawyer and Juliet, Jack and Kate, and Jack are concerned.

As a fan of the Show first and foremost, I take issue with reading recaps and finding the author trying to shape my view of a particular character or pairing and telling me I should basically like or hate that particular character or pairing. I find that strange since all the characters are flawed and have had their ups and downs.

P.S. Before anyone goes anal, I like Fish's recaps. I just wish there was less bias on certain topics.

Anonymous said...

I guess I was too late.

Anonymous said...

As a fan of the Show first and foremost, I take issue with reading recaps and finding the author trying to shape my view of a particular character or pairing and telling me I should basically like or hate that particular character or pairing.

This is actually incredible. You take issue? Is someone forcing you to read this? If you want a bare list of the facts you should read the ABC recap. Otherwise all writers are trying to shape the view of the readers. Why do you think they write?

It figures you're a sawyer/juliet fan. Your group convinced itself with online groupthink of somethign that was never true. Now you cry foul whenever you have to face the fact you were wrong. You're going to be doing that a lot in the next few months.

You should read this: http://www.npr.org/blogs/monkeysee/2010/02/the_doubleedged_sword_of_devot.html

It could be written about you Suliet fans. Especially the part where you point at other message boards or polls as if that somehow made your stupid opinions more valid than what the writers were actually doing.

Anonymous said...

Why is it that anything opposing your opinion is a "stupid" opinion? My god, it's posters such as yourself that are making us pray daily that have made Skaters the most obnoxious posters in fandom. The tone of your post speaks volumes about your mentality. Sorry, but you can't claim to be a Lost deciphering god.

Just for kicks, go back and watch James telling Juliet he loves her and loop it the part where he tells Kate to FO. HIT REPLAY!!

Anonymous said...

Sorry, 5:41, your right to not be offended on teh intrawebz does not trounce Fish's right to express her opinion.

Don't like her "bias" against your ship, then feel free to go someplace else. Or even better, grow a thicker skin so you can keep enjoying the parts of her reviews that you do like. (I did, and I don't regret it at all)

Anonymous said...

Fish, I think you got one of those Suliet zombies on here. I think it might be the super nutter from Lost University, probably the one who always trashes you.

Anonymous said...

Pathetic. I have been very respectful of the posters and accepted any criticism I got until one of the anony's got personal.

Anonymous said...

"I agree. But when a dozen or so recappers all have say the same thing regarding the romance in their reviewsas opposed to Fish and maybe 1 or two others, I'll go with the dozen."

Rather than think for yourself? Wow. Thank goodness the dozen other recappers didn't declare the right thing to do was to throw yourself off a bridge into shallow waters then.

" "it's obvious that Sawyer didn't love Juliet enough."

Very curious how you reached that conclusion after that breakdown on the dock (the fact that Sawyer cried for the first time on the show might not mean much to many, but it sure proves a lot to me), the confession he was about to propose, the I love You's, "I'm doing it for her". "

If Sawyer loved Juliet enough, wouldn't he have proposed to her when she announced her intention to go along with Jack's plan so she'd never have to face life without him? Instead of keeping that ring buried until he felt guilty for never asking her to marry him since it might have saved her life. And Juliet had made that decision because she knew he really loved Kate more than he loved her.

As for the ILYs, it's amazing how people multiply any such declaration in their own minds. Sure, Juliet said ILY and Sawyer reciprocated with "ILY too". We know he loved her. Is the difference with this love for you because Juliet declared her love for him? That was never in dispute. But it doesn't make Sawyer love her more than he loves Kate. He has said ILY to Kate too btw, at a time when Kate wasn't looking for such a declaration. Since we know Sawyer never asked Juliet to marry him when there were moments when she really needed reassurance of his love, then yes, we can say he didn't love her ENOUGH. And he's blaming himself now for it but his feelings aren't something he can change. I think Sawyer's tears were the sum of all the heartache he has endured. He's back to being alone because he has to be, for now anyway. But ever since falling in love with Kate, being alone is a pain like he has never experienced before. Because he knows how much better his life can be when the one he loves is in it. The cruelty now is that he's punishing himself by facing solitude again.

- Midnight

Anonymous said...

"Rather than think for yourself?"

I think you're misinterpreting what I'm saying. I "believe" that Sawyer will forever be tied to Juliet now. I just brought up the other recaps to show that it's not really out of the realm of possibility that is the case as opposed to what was posted in Fish's recap. In fact, that is what most people are saying.

"If Sawyer loved Juliet enough, wouldn't he have proposed to her when she announced her intention to go along with Jack's plan so she'd never have to face life without him?"

Wouldn't it have confirmed Kate's love to Sawyer if she had said ILU back to him in the cage? Just because he didn't propose does not mean that he does not love her enough. Your conclusion is based on how you prefer to interpret the situation.

"We know he loved her. Is the difference with this love for you because Juliet declared her love for him? That was never in dispute. But it doesn't make Sawyer love her more than he loves Kate."

The difference between the two relationships is there's confirmed love by both parties based on a 3 year relationship (Canon) as compared to a one way confirmation of love from Sawyer's part, while Kate didn't answer even though Sawyer could have been dying in just a few hours and needed just as much assurance as Juliet did. We didn't get that either, yet you are sure of Kate's love for Sawyer.

Goyt said...

Pulls out a gun shoots the anonymice. Hey suliet shipper you come on to skater recap thats part of a skate forum and complain that its biased towards skate well duh!!! dont you get it juliet is dead/gone/finito/deceased/shuffled of this mortal coil. Im starting to think some sulieteers are into necrophilia. Its simple dont like the skate bias boycott fishs recap then everyones happy. We dont have to read your whining you dont have to read fishs bias

Dela said...

Just found your reviews and I thoroughly enjoy them! I would say I'm a new Sawyer and Kate fan even though I've been watching LOST since season 3. It was only this year that I started to fully appreciate these two characters which is surprising because they aren't even currently together. I have been watching old episodes and these two characters are completely adorable!

I hope your insight is correct because I really would like Sawyer and Kate to end up together. Damn Josh for being such a good actor because there is no doubt in my mind that Sawyer did love Juliet. Unfortunately time is not on our side so it might be hard for them to pull off Sawyer and Kate ending up together even though they belong together.

That's the thing that sucks in the very end. Sure people might claim that Sawyer and Kate only knew each other for a few months but Sawyer spent 3 years with Juliet BUT as a viewer in REAL TIME, the investment in Sawyer and Kate has been a lot longer than the pretend 3 years that they magically made up. We didn't really see any of it so that's why I'm not invested... He was cute and smitten like he was with Kate... I don't know.... It gets me anxious! lol Hopefully all will work out for the best... Island Kate and Other Kate should both end up with Sawyer!

sydb said...

"That's the thing that sucks in the very end. Sure people might claim that Sawyer and Kate only knew each other for a few months but Sawyer spent 3 years with Juliet BUT as a viewer in REAL TIME, the investment in Sawyer and Kate has been a lot longer than the pretend 3 years that they magically made up. We didn't really see any of it so that's why I'm not invested... He was cute and smitten like he was with Kate."

EXACTLY. thats the whole point, i never got the people who were into suliet, we never saw anything happen! it was there, and it felt weird. specially when you think back about what those 2 characters were about and did, what they were attracted to, you would see that they had NOTHING in common. it was just a very odd pairing. i think the people who liked him were the ones who wanted kate to end up with jack.

also about other reviewers who thought that sawyer and kate are over... they are usually men, who dont know how to read romance and nuances.

Anonymous said...

I think that might be Cecelia from LU. She's preachy like that and always points to polls and other bloggers to make her point. She thinks if she can show that enough other lame brains agree with her online, her wishes somehow MUST be made true. She really should read the NPR article. Lost is not a show where online crazies get to vote for the ending they like best. Can you imagine how it would suck if they let suliets or jates write this show? They don't even watch it aside from their ship scenes.

Anonymous said...

What's amazing about all the complaining my posts have generated is that all of the sudden this has become a "Skate forum" and everyone is crying foul at an opposing viewpoint. I have read many posts in Fishbiscuitland that have criticized other forums for not having an open policy regarding posting so as to generate debate. Yet when debate is generated here, everyone pulls out all the guns and are quick to say there's no room for that here.

Anonymous said...

"Lost is not a show where online crazies get to vote for the ending they like best. Can you imagine how it would suck if they let suliets or jates write this show? They don't even watch it aside from their ship scenes."

Yeah you are right. Lost is a show that only Fishbiscuit and about 4 other posters understand. Anyone else just doesn't get it.

On a more serious note, if you doubt what i'm saying, just go to any Lost forum, skim through the Skater thread, and you'll realize that it's only 2 or 3 posters blinded by their addiction to being right that are actually still active. Over at the Fuselage, the latest Skater thread is over a year old and they're just barely half way done with it. While the most active threads at Fishbiscuit are those reserved to criticize anything non-Skate. Pathetic much?

Almost all level-headed Skaters have abandoned ship after reading the writing on the wall.

Kathy said...

Cecelia, you really need to read that NPR article. You are so hung up on the internet fandom, I think they were writing about you personally.

I don't see Fish telling anyone not to post here. Seems pretty open to me. Your repetitive drivel is here, isn't it?

Just go rock yourself in a corner and say "No one likes Skate. Everyone wants Suliet. Majority rules." But don't kid yourself that Darlton gives a flying fig about you and your nonsense.

Kathy said...

Oh yeah I also went to FBL just now and actually the most active threads are the spoiler threads (where they seem to be having a party - wonder why?) and the episode discussion threads. Skaters are the smartest group in the fandom, and bitter Sulieteers can just gnaw their ankles off if they want. They aren't going to change a thing.

Anonymous said...

Hmm, when I go to any Lost forum lately, I find the Jaters have all left town and there are about 3 or 4 obnoxious Suliet fanatics having fits over manips that look like autopsy photos. What's your point, Suliet fan?

I wonder did you notice Doc Jensen is a big fan of Fish and that she's getting praise all over the place? Are those all her "4 other posters" ? How badly are you invested in deluding yourself exactly?

Kathy, I'm not sure that's Cecelia. It could be wtfucker or TRoss, those bitter ex Skaters that realized they jumped ship at exactly the wrong time. LMAO!

SockeRock said...

I don't know who Kate will wind up. She ran past Sawyer to get to Jack when they were both knocked out and could have been dead, now she's all about Sawyer, so it could go either way. But one way it isn't going to go is the Bogus St. Juliet's way. Not only is she really dead, she is most sincerely dead.

I have to say I have a particular dislike for the Sawyer/Juliet shippers. They got more than the Charlie/Claire fans got, but are they satisfied? No.

I'm sorry, but Sawyer is not tied to that nitwit for life. They had a pretend relationship pretending to be people that weren't real. If they had left the island, their make believe relationship would have crumbled to dust in the light of the real world.

As for the ring, Sawyer had three years to ask the nitwit to marry him, but he didn't. When he heard the others were back, he couldn't jump out of bed with the nitwit fast enough. Darlton said when Kate returned it was over between Sawyer and the nitwit. The thing that stopped him was he was waiting for Kate to return. He wouldn't commit to the nitwit because he was still waiting for his real love to return and wouldn't settle for the pretend one.

Anonymous said...

The way I see it if all of you are as confident of a Sawyer and Kate ending my post would have slipped under the radar. All I said was that Fish's recap was great and could convince the biggest skeptic, but when it came to certain aspects there was bias and could be basically be interpreted exactly the opposite of what was concluded.

"now she's all about Sawyer, so it could go either way."

Hate to burst your bubble but the latest interviews aren't exactly supporting that theory.

What surprises me is that there seems to be more debate on who I am than what's being said.

Anonymous said...

Because what you're saying is just ordinary Suliet claptrap. What's to discuss? Fish clearly watches the show, you're clearly one of the few online Suliet obsessives. You haven't said a single thing except your brilliant observation that while Fish is spot on with the myth stuff, you're quite sure she's unable to read the romance stuff at all. And you've got a bias as big as a dumptruck, so why exactly should that opinion mean anything to anyone?

You think polls and airhead shipper threads are how the show is written. Now you're referencing interviews - do you think they tell us spoilers in interviews?

It's not hard to guess who you are. There are only about 5 possibilities, since normal intelligent fans all realize Juliet is as DEAD as a doornail. I guess by your own reckoning, that means Suliet is over. Since it's all about how many morons post pictures of bloody corpses being kissed. That's how shows are written in the minds of a Suliet fan I guess.

Anonymous said...

I really don't know how to simplify what I'm saying enough for you to understand. When I first posted, I was posting my opinion. I wasn't out to convert anyone or prove anyone wrong. When people began attacking my opinion with the typical "Sawyer can't love Juliet because he's in love with Kate" BS talking points, they made it a debate.

If you disagree with my posts then that's fine. But don't criticize my post with the regular 2 or so reasons Skaters have memorized as proof positive of Sawyer loving Kate more than Juliet. I'm fairly sure it's possible to think of a lot more reasons and examples that show that Sawyer and Kate are not IT.

You want to prove me wrong, show me how Fish is not biased regarding the romance and all my posts are null and void. Don't say ohh you're wrong because you support the wrong couple. Who I support isn't the issue!!!!

Anonymous said...

You're a TROLL with an agenda. That's the point. No one wants to prove anything to you. What is it you're trying to prove and why are you wasting so much of your time doing it? Go back to posting bloody screencaps of 'your' dead pairing 'cause sweetie that's all you got.

Anonymous said...

"You're a TROLL with an agenda. That's the point. No one wants to prove anything to you"

Agenda? So now it's a conspiracy? Talk about paranoid. Just go back and live in your everything-is-OK-in-the-world-of-Skate fantasy then. Your ship is one that will keep sailing around in the ocean but will never hit land. It reminds me of the broken record back in the hatch kind of. You're stuck skipping on certain aspects of a song while everyone else has reached the end of the record and memorized the lyrics already.

In any case, I guess our debate is over and my point still stands. Fish's recaps are good when it comes to the mythology but biased regarding the romance.

I'm out!

Anonymous said...

I'm embarrassed for you ,dude. I really don't what so hard to understand-she is dead for a reason. Still can't get my head around how stupid this fandom really is :(

Great recap Fish :)

LostTvFan said...

No one has ever claimed her recaps were not bias. They are her POV -- if you want to present your POV go to the effort of writing your own blog. The Fish has made no secret of the fact she's a Skater and you must know that by now. Makes one wonder what you are doing here other than calling people names and stomping your little Suliet feet.

SockeRock said...

You've just proven why I don't like Suey fans. I find them to be a pack of delusional nincompoops who have no grasp on reality.

This so called great romance you think is the be all and end all of the show took place 99% off screen. That's not a big romance.

You want to talk interviews, Darlton said your couple was over the minute Kate returned. How about that interview? You were given a death scene and even a ring, be happy with that and move on.

As I stated, Charlie/Claire fans didn't even get that, and still you Suey fans are bellyaching for more. Charlie and Claire were an actual pairing seen on the show. Their first kiss was shown.

You're lucky you got what you did. Juliet was never one of the big important characters. She also isn't the be-all and end-all of this show. She's just another rotting corpse.

I'm sorry the show gave you as much as it did, when it could have left it as it ended last season, but the show wanted you to know your gurl is dead.

Anonymous said...

I guess our debate is over and my point still stands. Fish's recaps are good when it comes to the mythology but biased regarding the romance.

That's not a "point" Einstein. It's an opinion. It's nothing but your opinion. You provided nothing to back it up except that Fish likes a different ship than you.

Listen, Cecelia-WTFucker, next time you want to diss Skaters for being delusional remember you are creaming yourself over a ship where one half of it is now a hunk of meat rotting underground.

And second, wake the hell up. Skaters are coming out of the woodwork and Sueys (thanks for that one!) are sinking back in. Why is that? Because people move with the times. It takes a special kind of weirdo to ship the hottest guy on Lost with a corpse. Go back to wherever the other 4 remaining Suey fans are posting.

Rich said...

WOW! Why are you guys at each other's throats like that? Can't we all play nice and be polite? I myself never cared that much about the romance on the show. Fish may be a skater but she does have really great insight into all aspects of the show. So, usually, she'll come up with some connection that no other recapper made. Which is great.

But there's only 3 months and a week left till the whole ship deal is settled for good. Can't you wait till then to brag/gloat/mock/ kill each other?

I can't believe the lengths you guys will go to just to prove your point. And the insults? Whatever happened to common courtesy?
Settle down guys, it's only a TV show. Be nice, kids.

Anonymous said...

So the Suliet fan wants answers to her questions... here you go then, though I believe it's pointless since you've already concluded that Sawyer can only love Juliet. But at least you can never say I ignored you:

From your response, I didn't misinterpret one single thing that you said. Your belief or any other recapper's belief that Sawyer has stopped loving Kate and will continue to solely love a dead lover is just that, a belief. Not based on how the relationships have played out thus far or the facts as presented. We know that Sawyer hasn't got Kate out of his head or his heart because we've seen evidence of it many times over, including for example a glimpse of his thoughts when Bernard spoke about what's important, just being together with the woman he loves.

Why would Kate not have said ILY back in early S3? Because there were three seasons left of this story. The triangle was going to kept alive and Sawyer's death was obviously not intended by the writers at that point. It's as simple as that. Juliet's death on the other hand obviously was intended. So what purpose would it serve if Sawyer HAD proposed to her before that? It would only prove that he did love her more than he's loved anyone else, because what other point would there be if Juliet's already dead? They'd never be able to marry, in case you haven't figured that out. Again, the writers clearly did not want that to be the case. The logical answer as to why, apart from my preference or evidence the show has given us so far, is that the love of Sawyer's life was not Juliet. Don't forget Sawyer has clearly stated he asked Juliet to stay because he didn't want to be alone. Unless the writers want to keep him at the stage he's at now (extremely unlikely on this show), he won't remain alone by the time this show is over.

I'm sure of Kate's love for Sawyer because I have watched 5 seasons of a slowly developing relationship between the two, complete with obstacles and separations and compared and contrasted with any feelings Kate has had for Jack. And most importantly, in addition to the recent reveal of Kate's feelings in WHH and WKDoes. I'm pretty certain at this stage that Kate will not be voicing an ILY to anyone until the very end of the game. If even then. Let's face it, ILYs on Lost aren't the end all and be all, considering the short relationship times often attached. I think it's much more significant to SEE Kate loving Sawyer than hear it from her lips. Though I do hope the writers have her say it if only because part of the online fandom will never be convinced otherwise, preferring to not face the story as presented to them.

- Midnight

goyt said...

The difference is we aren't going into her house and pissing on the carpet. Everybody knows fish is a skater but she puts alot of work into these recaps. so the polite thing to do if you dont like it is to say nothing and don't read it again (simple dont bash the fish at fishbiscuitland and expect people not to defend her)I just want to say thank you fish for the recaps and the forum

Anonymous said...

@ goyt : so what you are saying is either praise her or don't say anything at all? That's kind of childish buddy. And that's usually NOT the way an adult conversation works. If Fish didn't want to open herself up to criticism or needed people to defend her work, my guess is she probably wouldn't be posting on the internet for the whole world to read.

Also, who's pissing on your carpet?

Anne said...

I think the Fish can hack a little criticism.

I personally find a lot of the belly-aching regarding her recaps quite amusing. It generally comes from other shippers with an agenda who hate how she interprets the show because it's not in their favor, or fanboys who don't like the icky romance/relationship/character stuff and think it's a waste of time on the show and shouldn't even be discussed in a recap.

She's always been controversial and staunchly pro-skate. Want some dry boring fanboy read? Go check out J. Wood or someone else of that vein. Want blind Jackus worship? Jeff Jensen's your man. And so on.

Anonymous said...

Didn't Cecelia say Good Day! and stomp out of here? And now she's back?

What's wrong, honey? Tired of talking to those last 4 Sueys in your dead little threads filled with all your romantic roadkill pictures?

I'll tell you what's upsetting you - You know Fish reads the show very very well. You see how she uses the same techniques to analyze the romantic relationships as she does the myth stuff (connections, themes, how the moments are filmed and placed in the narrative). And it FREAKS you OUT that she is coming to the opposite conclusion as you want her to. You know she's more than just a shipper and you know her analysis can't be brushed off as mere bias.

That's what's killing you. So now that you know, you can go back to drooling over your roadkill romance.

Anonymous said...

Seems to me you're all tripping on acid or worse. The Kate/Sawyer/Jack/Juliet romance is just as sappy and just as typical as any other show on ABC (see Grey's Anatomy, Desperate Housewives and so on). It's the classic case of X sleeps with Y and Y sleeps with Z, and Z sleeps with J. J then dies, and so on and so on. It's very boring actually. It's ridiculously hilarious to see a bunch of grown-ass people fight over who gets to sleep with who when the show ends. Please don't stop. To us unbiased observers, it's all good fun.

Anonymous said...

Thank you Midnight for actually debating the points without personal criticism.

"We know that Sawyer hasn't got Kate out of his head or his heart because we've seen evidence of it many times over, including for example a glimpse of his thoughts when Bernard spoke about what's important, just being together with the woman he loves."

This is where we disagree. I never said Sawyer doesn't/didn't love Kate. However, I also don't consider "looks" to be canon examples of love. I see them as the directors way to tease the viewer and fuel the debate and maybe an example of love...just not canon. You seem to conclude it MUST mean something.

"So what purpose would it serve if Sawyer HAD proposed to her before that? It would only prove that he did love her more than he's loved anyone else, because what other point would there be if Juliet's already dead? They'd never be able to marry, in case you haven't figured that out. Again, the writers clearly did not want that to be the case."

The fact that Darlton was showing the audience Sawyer's regret of not proposing and showing that regret to Kate is proof of his love to Juliet. It's not proof that he was undecided. If he was undecided he wouldn't regret not doing it.

"I'm sure of Kate's love for Sawyer because I have watched 5 seasons of a slowly developing relationship between the two"

I'm sorry but the mere fact that she refused to go back to the island after getting confirmation that Sawyer is alive does not show me that.

And there was no reveal of Kate's feelings towards Sawyer in 'WKD'. In fact she basically admitted it to Sawyer's face: She was not back on the island for him, She was back on the island for Claire.

As for the rest of the posts, I was not coming into Fish's house and 'pissing on her carpet'. Since I generally respect Fish's work, it doesn't mean I have to kiss her ass with everything she says and I can't disagree with portions of her analysis when I see bias in it and thus, voice my disagreement.

When I compliment her analysis of the mythology, it's because that analysis is not based on her emotions. When I criticize her assessment of the romance, its because she's invested in Skate (like many have already mentioned) emotionally and won't be looking at things objectively. She'll be doing it in any way that presents Sawyer and Kate as endgame. Just take a look at Fish's posts in 2006 and 2007 critique of Jate as proof, then come and say she is objective when it comes to her Sawyer and Kate analysis or more importantly, her Sawyer and Juliet analysis.

There is nothing wrong with Fish being a Skater. There's also nothing wrong when someone comes out and says they disagree with her assessment because IT. IS. BIASED!! Don't get all hot and bothered when someone is stating the obvious.

Anonymous said...

Cecelia are there NO Suey's left for you to talk with? Has your dead ship lost all its steam so quickly?

Your arguments are boring and rote. They were all discounted once your summer of wishing ended. You are wasting your time trying to recapture a storyline that is OVER, that the writers did not want to invest in.

Fish has one big leg up on you. She is writing about a relationship that is STILL ALIVE.

Why can't you cut your addiction to this blog? Are WTFucker and TRoss no longer available to whine with you about the ev0l Skaters? Are you tired of making manips from that ONE romantic scene you got? Did all the bloody manips make you as sick as they make the rest of the fandom?

I'm sorry for you that Suliet is over and that no one but a few cranky matrons still care about it, but really, you're not saying anything here that hasn't been said 1000 times already by the rest of your unimaginative sueys. Give it a rest. There's a new ep tonight and you can resume your Fish addiction after that.

Anonymous said...

LOL, I can no longer bare to see this bothering you so much. Has it occurred to you that maybe, just maybe, I'm not Cecilia? Or are you as sure of me being Cecilia as you are of Skate being endgame?

Anonymous said...

No it doesn't matter if you're cecelia or wtfucker or one of the 4 or 5 sueys left online. You're all pretty much the same - no imagination, lots of preachiness, not very bright, can't let go.

Anonymous said...

Fixation on polls, majority opinion and Skaters claimng to be "endgame"? Yup, that's Cecelia. She's a sad little robot.

Anonymous said...

Why argue with me then? I have to agree with you though, when it comes to imagination no one beats you. Kate can pull out a shotgun and shoot Sawyer (or Vice versa), and you'd consider that the biggest proof of love Television, literature, or the big screen has witnessed. You're posts on all the forums are proof of this and you've made the biggest fool of yourself and of Skate as a fandom because of that.

Yeah, I pretty much know who you are ;)

See you on the next recap!

Anonymous said...

LOL

Anonymous said...

Yup, Cecelia.

And seriously, Cecelia? WTF ? You are one sad obsessed puppy.

Anonymous said...

You're all a bunch of morons. It's just a goddamn tv show. Don't any of you have lives or boyfriends or girlfriends or spouses and such to attend to? Or are you all just a sad bunch of losers with no social lives and using the romance plot of a sci-fi/mystery show as a substitute for what you can't have because no man/woman can stand your company. You're pathetic. FUCK YOU ALL skaters/jaters/sulieters/wtfers.

Anonymous said...

Oops Anon. No partner "to attend to" since you have so much time to analyze and decide we're all so pathetic?

And TRoss (not Cecelia):

I never said it was only a look that proved where Sawyer's heart was. The context is what's important. Sawyer thought of Kate FIRST in terms of spending the rest of his life with someone. I didn't have to work out what it meant. The FACTS were there on screen. They even showed Juliet work that one out.

You've lost the point of Sawyer's regret entirely. His regret was that Juliet ended up losing her life, because he didn't love her enough to convince her she meant more to him than anyone else.

If you want to refuse to believe that Kate could love Sawyer all because she didn't want to go back when she learned Sawyer was alive, you're missing out on a lot more than I ever imagined and it's pointless trying to explain it to you, since you've already decided you don't want to understand anything that isn't literal on screen. The same goes for Kate's reasons to go after Sawyer in WKD. Never mind her heartbreak at the end of their conversation on the dock.

The only reason you criticise the Fish for her love for Skate is because she isn't invested in the ship you like. She's the most objective person I know when it comes to analysis of any of the relationships on this show, regardless of the fact that she prefers Sawyer and Kate and that's because she has never been the type to delude herself. She's certainly intelligent enough to realize there's ZERO point in trying to pull the wool over her own eyes. It isn't going to change a damn thing in the story.

For someone who has been a fan of Sawyer all along, I really think you don't understand him TRoss. If the rest of us don't, it won't be because we're not open to his reasons for acting a certain way. He's a lot more of a complex and interesting character than you are making him out to be. It's a pity you no longer look beyond what anyone is merely saying and pay more attention to the actions and the story instead.

- Midnight

Anonymous said...

You are indeed pathetic midnight, and a bit nuts too. And no analysis is needed. You're like crazy stalkers, complete with pictures and paranoid delusions.

Anonymous said...

So now I'm TRoss?

But this?!?!

"She's the most objective person I know when it comes to analysis of any of the relationships on this show"

This I have to frame!

Alex said...

Guys, whoever this Suey is that's posting on your blog here, she really proves what I've been noticing - the Sueys are the most desperate, meanspirited bunch of frustrated old hags this mentally ill fandom has yet produced.

I'm noticing every board is starting to get creeped out by them. Sorry you've got one on your tail. They're real nuisances. Since they don't really watch the show and are only in it for their dead ship, they have nothing to do but badger all of us who are still enjoying the great ride.

Anonymous said...

"Guys, whoever this Suey is that's posting on your blog here"

It's not THEIR blog. It's Fish's Recaps blog. If my aim was to go tit-for-tat with the Skaters I'd post in the forum. I tried to leave my criticism to the recap but the handful of Skaters still obsessed with being right (or worried about looking like fools for having wasted years of their life on something that didn't come to fruition) didn't like that.

Anonymous said...

Cecelia, you crazy old bat, I don't think it's Skaters right now who are afraid of looking like fools. You seem to be more than a little slow, but keep up with the times. Things have never looked better for Skaters, which you should know, if you're keeping up with spoilers. Why not quit while you're ahead and find a nice quilt to work on someplace? This show passed you by a long time ago.

Anonymous said...

No use in arguing with someone who is so obviously satisfied with so little guys/gals. TPTB made it clear that they didn't consider the Sawyer/Juliet backstory worth writing so they skipped it entirely. If Cecelia, or anyone else, is happy with not getting all the usual good stuff that any decent television relationship gets then good for her. If she's pleased with Suliet's fast-fowarded treatment, more power to her. If she's content with getting to see only about 15 minutes of total screentime of her couple...the majority of which only showed how they ended, then who are we to steal her thunder? If she's feeling all warm and fuzzy that half her ship is dead while the other one is racked with guilt because his desire to not be alone led to the other one's death then let her have that. She can stay mired in the last few episodes of S5 for time immemorial while the rest of us get on with the business of S6.

rove3

Anonymous said...

TRoss, when you consider your ship still has viability with one half of it dead, it isn't difficult to believe the Fish is more objective.

- Midnight

Anonymous said...

What's this now? No comments for a day? Have you folks run out of people to fight with? Here, let me help.

It's going to be interesting to see how the scaly one spins her recap of "The Substitute" to push forward her Sawyer/Kate propaganda, since neither Kate nor Jack are in this episode. Because you can bet your ass she'll find a way to do so, it's her "raison d'etre". Or maybe she just won't do a recap at all. Whenever an episode is thin on or devoid of sappy triangle plot, she's usually inexplicably busy. Surely coincidence.

Anonymous said...

Hi, just wanted to clarify that this part is incorrect: "Jack pulled a desperately confused Kate towards him for a kiss, a kiss she ran from, with a rather horrified expression" Jack pulled her because she was acting like crazy, she didn't looked ok and he was calming her and it was Kate who kissed him out of the blue, so no, Jack didn't pulled her for a kiss, she even apologized later for jumping him lol

Lina

Anonymous said...

Nice try, anon, but you're clearly an idiot. FIsh reviews every episode, shippy or not. She just did all of season one. she does justice to every aspect of the show, which is why all the anti-skaters should be very very nervous. She doesn't pull things out of thin air. She's more grounded in the show and writes a better review than anyone else out there, including Doc Jensen (who is her fan btw).

connie bagby said...

In Defense of Kate - Once the darling of the LOST blogosphere, Kate Austen has become the most dislisked character on the show, particularly for the sci-fi contingent. Some dislike her because she slipped so easily and boringly in the life of a wealthy, suburbanite single mom, but for most it is her callous dithering over choosing a mate. As a woman, I'm here to defend her dithering, and state that anything else just would be realistic.
We may not know all of Kate's back-story, but liet's remind ourselves of what we do know. She says that Wayne never touched her, but do we believe her? Or, I have often wondered it there was anouther sister whom he did touch and whom Kate attempted to defend. It would explain her atement in the time-capsule tape that, although she wanted to leave, she just couldn't. Maybe there's even a botched abortion in her story. At any rate, we know that she is sickened by the fact that Wayne's DNA is a part of her and that, as a result, she believes she can never be good or clean. We also know that this Sunday-school-goer always used the names of saints for her aliases and that she always called Edward March on Saints Days. Clearly, this is a woman desperately wanting redemption. I'm going to use that word with its Biblical mean-"the process of paying the required price to free a convicted criminal." So with ppart Christiaan theology and part fairly tale dreams, Kate seems to believe it she can love and win the love of am honorable man, (a policeman or a doctor) she will be set free of these feelings she has about herself. Sawyer, a conman and a murderer, simply does not qualify. Sawyer hasn't done much to help his cause either. He almost had her for his own after he returned from the failed raft escape, but then male hubris, lack of anger management, and maybe fear of conmittment caused him to use her to pull off the Long Con for guns. He hten worsened matters by telling her that conning was a part of him and that "A tiger don't change its sponts." The chemistry between them is definately there, but can we blame her for not trusting him. And she has her mother as a glaring example of what a woman's life looks like when she chooses passion over the love of an honorable man. Itonically, the only way Sawyer could prove he is worthy of Kate is to reject Kate and remain faithful to Juliet. So lighten up on Kate. She has some legitimate issues.

Anonymous said...

LMFAO @ Fish is better than Jeff Jensen.

Don't be such a sheep, Jensen works for EW, he's been a journalist for a number of years, and doesn't write exclusively about Lost.

Fish, on the other hand, only writes about Lost, and there's no mention anywhere of how qualified she may or may not be. Besides her internet name, there's nothing else that is known about her.

Even if Jensen is a fan of hers, does that necessarily make her better?

Anonymous said...

She's better because she's better. You'd never find her writing that Jack and Kate are like Mr. & Mrs. Castaway and all the little Castaways, like Jensen did last week. Maybe he was sick and he let his 12 year old daughter write that one?

Anonymous said...

What's wrong with Jensen's statement? Kate and Jack were the lead characters at the start of the show and when Jensen said Mr & Mrs Castaway, what he was referring to is how that scene in the temple where Kate is about to leave and go look for Sawyer is similar to scenes Kate had with Jack before she went to Sawyer to find out where Shannon's inhalers were or when Sawyer was refusing to give up the last gun. Rewatch those scenes if you have the dvds, it'll make much more sense. He was showing how this season is similar to season 1.

Kind of makes me wonder why you'd be so upset over this? Are you offended that he might be implying that Jack & Kate might be THE couple of the show? Even better yet, he's smarter than he looks, did it not occur to you that he knows full well how easy it is to push your buttons and you walked right into it? Or maybe you're just being intentionally thick?

Anonymous said...

I wonder if this Anon is the same Suey, or just an equally dimwitted Jater. No, I don't think Doc Jensen is writing his column to push Skaters' buttons, and I'm not understanding how a fan commenting about his poorly written column is "walking into his trap".

Jensen messed up. He knew better but he got caught up in his own boring taste in Lost romance. He's a big Suey fan after all. Like most fanboys, he's only comfortable with relationships where the woman has no purpose other than to support the man. He wrote in that review also that Kate got Jack's "blessing", which shows you just how archaically he views male/female relationships.

It's ok. He'll wake up soon enough. We have Josh's interview this week validating Fish's take on the dock scene - one that only she got right out of all the major reviewers. We have Evi in EW saying how happy she is that Kate isn't "trotting along behind Jack" anymore. Another major player validating what Skaters have been saying all along.

I won't disrespect Fish's blog by posting any spoilers here, but all the shipping regulars know what they are. Time to wake up and smell the coffee, Jates and Sueys. This doesn't look like it's the show for you anymore. There must be some by-the-numbers soap opera you all can find to watch instead. See ya!

kroll said...

The simple test here for all you FB followers.

I bet you any money in the world, that if FB was a Jater you would all trash her recaps.

You only follow her like sheep because you follow her ship.

These "recaps" are nothing more than the writing equivilant of Popup books.

She is always one of the last people to do a recap, why? Because she copies all the interesting content from all the recappers around then net and then slaps 100 photos in it to pad it out.

Take out the photos and the shipper bias and the already posted ideas and you have very very little substance to these posts.

Anonymous said...

Yeah, kroll, I guess that's why Jeff Jensen calls her one of his favorites, creative and insightful.Because she steals from him. Makes sense.

Tell me, are ALL Fish haters total morons?

I think anyone who thinks these are popup reviews is just too stupid to even know how stupid they are. If these are popups, the girl should be writing popup textbooks, because every one of these reviews is full of information. And 90% of it has nothing to do with ships or Skate.

Anonymous said...

Well said @ kroll

And it's funny how if you don't agree with the retards here and you try to explain to them your opinion, you're automatically branded a jater or a suey. That's completely moronic.

On the subject of Jensen, I doubt very much he could give two shits about the romance. He's mostly about the mythology of the show. Hell, he's even been saying how impressed he is with Josh Holloway's performances. He's not inclined either way. He's pro-Lost.

And you want to point to interviews, go check this out :
http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/watch_with_kristin/b166548_losts_evangeline_lilly_thinks_kate_done.html

Anonymous said...

Yes! The fanboy-Jate-Sueys are now pointing to KRISTIN for evidence!

LMAO!

We've come full circle in this crazy fandom.

Sorry, fanboy-Jate-Sueys, no one thinks you're morons because you disagree with Fish. You prove yourself morons when you write things like this being a pop up review. Personally, I think if someone can make quantum physics accessible through popups, the way Fish did in her LAX review, then I think all writers should start using them.

I love how the haters are all so addicted to you, Fish. It's too bad they're as dumb as rocks, but I think that only makes the case that Lost was always too smart of a show for the likes of them. They hate what they can't comprehend, and it kills them that they can all see things are trending Fish's way.

Anonymous said...

When do any of the haters try to explain their opinions? They whine and they insult, but I don't know what their opinions are other than WAAAAAAHHHH!!!!

Anonymous said...

There only three opinion that matters to me. Mine, Damon and Carlton. Since Darlton don’t give a crap about Suliet I don’t ether. Its time to let go, girls! The bitch is dead!

Anonymous said...

Yes indeed, it's funny how shippers have double standards. They can't stick to anything they say. They're class A hypocrites. One minute, Jensen is great, the next he's a complete idiot, same goes for Kristin's interviews and whatever else. Make up your minds, once and for all.

Quantum physics? Maybe if your head became unstuck out of your ass for long enough, you'd know there's no such thing in LA X. And you're right, the show is too smart for shippers. They're narrow minded sheep. That's probably why they need a pop-up review. Just like kids want books with lots of pictures.

Read this post right here : http://fishbiscuitlandblog.blogspot.com/2008/06/imaginary-lost-in-wake-of-tsumani-that_16.html

If it applies to the jaters, then there's no reason why it shouldn't apply to skaters, sueys and all the rest as well.

And also this : http://fishbiscuitlandblog.blogspot.com/2010/01/getting-schooled-by-professor-dez.html

If DarkUFO is an animal house, then what should we call this place here? It's far worse in terms of obnoxious behaviour, insults, pomposity and all that generally douche-y attitude.

Anonymous said...

It's far worse in terms of obnoxious behaviour, insults, pomposity and all that generally douche-y attitude.

Then stop posting, douche. As always, most of the obnoxiousness comes from the haters.

Figures it would be a Dark fan. That guy lets fanboys write how they wish shippers could all be put through a wood chipper. I hardly think it's possible for any blog to sink lower than his.

and you've shown again how stupid you are. There's always a quantum physics angle on Lost, and Fish nailed it. It's obvious you don't have the IQ to understand it. Most haters are dumb like that. Is it The Stupid that makes them so angry?

Anonymous said...

To the last anon- good job swatting down that pesky fanboy. Is that the same one who was leaving the obscene posts a few weeks ago? That person also spoke about popups. It figures that it would be someone like that who'd join in on Dark's pity party that all the mean fishies keep making fun of him. If you go to Dark's blog right now you'll see posts where fanboys are calling other posters "bitches". Sometimes Dark even deletes the original posts but lets the fanboys insults stay.It's incredible how blind these creeps are to their own behavior.

MaverickHunterAsh said...

Wow. There are a lot of extremely immature people here, on both sides of the debate. Sad to see that such an intelligent show has attracted such a lowest-common-denominator fanbase.

Me, I've long enjoyed FB's recaps because she's fantastic at dissecting the mythology of the show. I don't care much for her VERY obvious, one-sided anti-Jack and pro-Skate biases, but hey, it's her blog and she can spin things however she wants. Doesn't make her any worse at examining the non-romance parts of the show.

And because all you kids throwing insults back and forth seem so hell-bent on "sides," I'm happy to inform you that I say all this with no allegiance to anyone's ship. I love Jack, I love Sawyer, and Juliet's one of my two favorite characters in Lost. I *was* a big Suliet fan, and I hope they make it in the other timeline. However, I absolutely loathe Kate and everything she's proven herself to be, and I hope she ends up alone, to be honest.

So I'm not a Jater, but I'm not a Skater either. But Suliet's over in the regular timeline, so I'm just a normal Lost fan.

Really the only thing I don't want to see is Skate happening after all, because Sawyer's one of my favorite characters and I'd have to lose all respect for him if he even gave Kate another glance after all her stupid shit.

Do I think Fish misread the dock scene? Yes. Do I think she's rather juvenile about her Jack hate and blind Skate love? Yes. But do I also think she's one of the best damn Lost recappers out there? Yes. Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses, and I believe Fish's is her tendency for her bias to permeate and angle her writing too much. But again, it's her blog, so she can do what she wants.

And because I CAN THINK FOR MYSELF, which is a concept very few of you on EITHER side of the debate seem to understand, I am able to enjoy her recaps while filtering out her bias and her (unconscious, possibly?) attempts to sway my positions on certain key aspects on which we disagree (Skate and everything regarding Jack, pretty much).

People -- that means Skaters, Jaters, Sulieters, whateverthefuckyouares -- it's called humility. Reasonable, respectful debate. Learn these things, respect each other. Lost is an incredibly intelligent show and deserves better fans than what you all are outing yourselves to be.

Anonymous said...

Thank God that Darlton don’t give a shit about Suliet, Juliet and love Skate lol

Devera said...

Thanks, Fish, always a pleasure to read your recaps. I got the Melissa Joan Hart reference, but I didn't realize that the actor that played her mom was on that show. How great.

"Hey, isn't that the guy from that show LOST?" --> loved the screencap for that one.

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