The History of Skate versus Jate
Here's a wonderful factual pictorial history with comparisons and contrasts of the romance between our favorite lovebirds Kate and Sawyer versus the questionably loving couple Kate and Jack...I guess Jate had to try. Posted by susan14509 at the Fishelage:
"I was thinking about all the Jate from SNBH. From the time we found out Sawyer wasn’t getting off the island and Jack and Kate did, I thought they’d get together. I don't like it, but it always made sense to me, for them to bond over their common experiences, and if Sawyer is presumed dead, Kate has no reason to not move on. But I never expected it to be all rushed into one episode, and without a sex scene, without any post-coital cuddling, without a morning wake up kiss scene, and a proposal without any “I love you” declarations. If I was a Jater I would be really disappointed. If, as TPTB say, the term 'flash' becomes irrelevant, then we can hope they won't be going back and showing any of that in FBs either.
So I decided to compare some of the romantic/kissing scenes between Skate and Jate. The Jate's not so bad in context because it's clear who TPTB are trying to show as the OTP.
Sawyer and Kate got the first kiss on the show, day 9 on the island. Confidence Man aired 11/10/04. Three and a half years later, that kiss is still being talked about in the media. And according to TV Guide, the next one might make this one 'pale in comparison'.
Kate kissed Jack on day 49 in What Kate did a year later on 11/30/05. I am sure it must have been mentioned…somewhere…at least once… by someone other than the Jaters. The Kiss and Run….
The week before that fateful kiss that Kate later apologized for, on 11/23/05 in Collision, day 48, she had kissed Sawyer on the forehead as she was softly whispering to him, willing him to hear her and take the antibiotic to get well.
Then came season three, and on 10/11/06 in The Glass Ballerina, day 69, Sawyer surprised Kate by swooping in and planting a re-hydrating passionate kiss on her. And even at a time like that, surprised, and with all the Others watching, Kate couldn't keep her tongue to herself.
Two episodes later in I Do, on 11/8/06, day 72-73, Kate was determined to free Sawyer before Pickett killed him, and an argument ensued leading to Sawyer revealing to Kate that there are two islands.
That argument could be compared to the Jate pre-kiss from the year before, with different reactions and certainly different results.
The results of the Skate argument…
And we were happily surprised by the post-coital scene and Sawyer’s grand declaration of “I love you, too” in response to Kate’s silent confirmation that she does love him.
So we can compare that to Jack and Kate’s post-coital scene…
But Jack and Kate did get a happy reunion on day 80 in The Man From Tallahassee on 3/21/07….
Oh…well… that probably wasn’t so happy after all. But their second one was…
Ah, well, third time’s a charm on day 82 in Left Behind on 4/4/07….
Three strikes and they’re out.
This is what a happy reunion looks like on 4/11/07 in One of Us on day 83…
On 4/18/07 in Catch 22, day 84, Kate went to Sawyer’s tent for some late night loving. Disregarding whatever reason initially led her there, the fact is, Sawyer is the one she went to.
In The Brig on 5/2/07, Day 89, Sawyer is asleep, assumingly post-coital, and Kate’s 'old habits' are kicking in, and she gets up to leave.
But Kate is over her old habits two years in the future, and she doesn’t leave Jacksus after sex, uh, jex….
So maybe she does still have a few 'old habits' to get over.
And in The Economist on 2/14/08, day 92, Sawyer proposed to Kate. Not exactly the conventional way, but he was sincere, and it was about them.
Compared to the sincerity of the Jate proposal which was all about validating Jack's insecurity over being a good daddy.
Here we have Sawyer telling Kate she can stay with him and he’ll keep her safe. They kiss and fall to the bed. It sure was implied that they would be making love after that, but we know that it didn’t lead to sex. On day 93 in Eggtown, 2/21/08...
In the Jate scene, Kate told Jack she was glad he was there and they kissed and he carried her down the hall. For all we know, that didn’t lead to jex either.
If the bubbles can ignore things that are shown on screen, we can ignore things that aren’t. If we didn’t see it, it didn’t happen.
And the next day, there was the sweet wake-up scene…
And the Jate morning wake up scene… Oh yeah, there was no Jate wake up scene, it was just Jack, only Jack…
Where was Kate… already in the shower. Washing off the jooties? Or thinking of Sawyer?
And then Jack had to come in and ruin her Sawyer shower fantasy thoughts. Put on your Monica face, Kate.
And the “I’m lying to you but I can fool you with a kiss” (or a sat phone hug)…
Compared to a two second look that Sawyer sees right through…
Sawyer and Kate just ‘get’ each other.
And even without seeing the actual kiss, it's easy to see how much they are connected. The chemistry radiates from them.
The kiss itself will be spectacular!
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Disclaimer: Not all gifs were made by me. I made most of them, but some I found and I don’t know where or who made them to credit. If they belong to you, and you don’t want me to use them, let me know and I’ll delete and make my own from the necessary scenes."
http://fishbiscuitland.com/Fishelage/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=206&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=2030
16 comments:
Great job with the picture essays as usual, Susan!
This was really fantastic, full of insights and visual comparisons I hadn't noticed before that are really telling. Really nice job Susan, thank you!!
Squee! I can't believe I got Fishbiscuited! I just post 'em like I see 'em. :) Thanks, Fish!!
Brilliant entry Susan! It's so lovely to see all the wonderful Skate gifs in one place, and even better to compare it to those few Jate attempts at romance. Your comment on "For all we know, that didn’t lead to jex either" made me laugh. One thing's for sure, in Jaterland fantasy has to better than the real thing since they didn't see actual evidence on their screens.
~Midnight
Lovely job Susan and thanks to the Fish for fishbiscuiting you! Pretty clear watching those animations which couple is the OTP of Lost and which couple got also ran status. Damn that GB kiss is hot, Kate you wicked wench! Bring on the SK, Josh and Evi can sell a kiss better than anyone on televsion, past or present.
That's wonderful! i'm impressed. I love kate and sawyer together! you did the greatest job i've ever seen on the net. Continue please!
Yay! Wonderful Fish! You never run out of insite into the characters and relationships on LOST.
Bravo! And I'd like to see one of those damn Jaters argue this one.
LOVED IT!!! It took me a long time to get through it cuz I was mesemerized by all the Skate scenes. Sigh....
Seriously, Kate/Jack kisses are about as exciting as dirt. Jack barely even moves his mouth. Sawyer/Kate, on the other hand......great tongue action......can we blame her??....um um ummmmmmmm!!
kate + sawyer were meant for each other and their chemistry is undeniable.
jack has far more important things on his plate. he can't ignore everything else around him just so he can find escape in one person.
sawyer has no connections. doesn't want to leave.
kate has no connections. running away from everyone.
they were meant for each other.
but jack...jack needs to save everyone. jack has everybody else's best intentions on his mind despite his faults...he made the choice that getting everyone off the island is more important than the fate of jate...
Brilliant! Thank you Susan and Fish.
Despite the fact that there was a Skate kiss in the finale...gotta say I'm really pleased that we got an even better Des/Penny kiss. Been waiting ages for that, and I'm glad that turned out to be the time-stopping kiss. That was simply beautiful. Sometimes, I wish people would forget the whole Jack/Kate/Sawyer triangle and embrace the real ships of the show, like Desmond/Penny, Sun/Jin, Rose/Bernard. I gotta say, I enjoy seeing relationships form over time instead of quickie sex romps in cages or hallway hip sex (lol that last one)
Although, I gotta say, we don't REALLY know if any of the Skate moments led to sex either, do we? They can't exactly show it on tv, but how do we know it wasn't just hardcore kissing? Have they ever mentioned getting it on, or is that just implied and accepted? Just wondering...
Anyway, nice site.
Yep, Kate really needs to be with the man who reminds her of the abusive father she murdered. That's what is best for her.
I guess some women really can't resist bad boys.
Not that I'm a fan of Kate with Jack, either. Jack seems to approach romance with everyone -- Kate, Sarah, and Juliet -- as if it were a duty. I can't tell whether that's supposed to be part of Jack's character or a limitation of Matthew Fox as an actor.
Frankly I'm bored with the whole thing. I think all three of them can do better, and would be better off with some therapy in any case. Kate flirts with Jack while she's sleeping with Sawyer. Why should Sawyer settle for that? Because she's pretty?
I don't know what the future holds for Jack or Kate, but I think Sawyer has martyr written all over him.
kate said...
Despite the fact that there was a Skate kiss in the finale...gotta say I'm really pleased that we got an even better Des/Penny kiss. Been waiting ages for that, and I'm glad that turned out to be the time-stopping kiss. That was simply beautiful.
I agree that the Des/Penny kiss was beautiful. But the kiss that was time-stopping and spectacular, that had been hyped by everyone for two months, is the Skate one.
According to the official recap…
http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/index?pn=recap#t=46481&d=106725
About Sawyer/Kate…
“Sawyer looks at the others and makes a decision. He leans over to Kate, whispers something in her ear, and then kisses Kate the kind of kiss that stops time. It's nothing short of spectacular. He breaks away and tells Kate to just do it. Then he jumps out of the chopper into the ocean below. He bops up to the surface and watches as the chopper disappears, then he starts swimming for the shore.”
About Des/Penny…
“As the boat pulls up beside the raft, they can hear a man shouting in Portuguese. He says the name Ms. Widmore, and time stops for Desmond. Penny looks over the railing, and Desmond finally sees her. For the first time in over three years, their eyes meet. Desmond climbs a rope ladder up to the deck, and they run into each other's arms. They hold each other weeping with joy. Desmond can't believe she found him. She tells him she has a tracking station. Desmond tells Penny he loves her and will never leave her again. Penny's crew help the others out of the raft. Desmond introduces Penny to everyone, and Jack tells her they need to talk.”
kate said…
Although, I gotta say, we don't REALLY know if any of the Skate moments led to sex either, do we? They can't exactly show it on tv, but how do we know it wasn't just hardcore kissing? Have they ever mentioned getting it on, or is that just implied and accepted? Just wondering…
Actually, we do know that Sawyer and Kate have had sex because Sawyer said it to Kate in Eggtown…
http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Eggtown_transcript
“Oh, come on! It's not like we ain't never done it before. Now, I'm cool we didn't go all the way last night. I get it. You were sad. But I mean, how can you resist after that whole "I'll keep you safe" thing?”
Robert said...
Yep, Kate really needs to be with the man who reminds her of the abusive father she murdered. That's what is best for her.
I guess you are talking about Jack there because he was the one who was home alone with Aaron, while he was getting drunk, and when Kate came home, he yelled and verbally abused her, and had Aaron not come into the room, we don’t know if it might have escalated to physical abuse as well.
yeah, Kate's attraction to sawyer and the chemistry there is undeniable..I did often feel like the show would often portray Kate unable to leave Sawyers side, for one reason or another, and that hurt as a jater.But Kate drifted back to jack a lot too, perhaps even more; still, jaters often suffered a lot of kicks in the face.But, I don't know how anyone can deny that it must hurt to see Kate clearly upset over jack + Juliet and turning to sawyer with tears in her eyes, telling him to shut up..That's not how I want to be with someone, a second choice, consolation prize.
And i am jealous as a jater that skate got more screen time when intimate and shown more relationship-focused issues than Jate.And, I have to agree it also sucks that jack's just not as good a kisser as sawyer haha (tho the kiss in 316 was hott). but that's a function of many factors, including the writers strike cutting down on the jatier season 4 (in which more relationship growth was intended to be shown but had to be cut for space, acc. to the writers).And tho we don't see a jate sex scene full-on, I mean come on, they're living together, are both attractive, drink wine, have orange panties lying on the floor, are naked in the shower together etc.Even if they've never had sex,last time I checked that's not the only thing or a main-determining factor I want out of a long-term relationship, or how I'd determine that skate is better than jate, b/c they had sex on screen.
Sometimes I can't really rationalize my reasons for disliking skate-maybe it's my frequent disgust of sawyer (and that, while i like his character, think he’s overrated and forgiven too easily..and don't find him as attractive as people make him out to be) and how he continued to con/one-up Kate and she’d keep going along with it. Yes, they have a strong connection, get each other, think alike, and I think he does have best wishes for her at heart, but to me, sawyer always put himself first (mostly early on, but also later in the show too).He'd manipulate Kate and she still cared deeply for/hung around him. Not necessarily a terrible thing, but I know I wouldn't want to be in that relationship. I think jack and Kate balanced each other out more; there were trust issues but there was also deep affection, sincerity, care, love.their relationship functioned like an analogy, backbone,"soul" i believe tptb called it, for the show; it wasnt just a romance but showcased redemption, acceptance, selflessness…All things Lost centers on. Skate I'm sure had these too, but for some reason I still find their relationship off, unfulfilling, kind of slimy- perhaps it's because they never worked fully when together because they could never hide each others faults.Both still were untrustworthy of the other. Once jack and Kate overcame or could overcome those trust issues/differences I think they made a better whole.
Yeah, it does kind of frustrate me that jater fantasy land often has more going for it than the real show..(Which, by the way, also extends into eternity in the afterlife.. get with it) But I guess that's for the best, as Kate and jack both had destinies apart from their relationship (though that was a big part of them) and one reason i always preferred these two is b/c their relationship goes beyond romance or physical attraction..They were teammates, trusting,friends since day 1.They had more obstacles to overcome, but eventually did (mostly) and just because there wasn't more time spent focusing on them getting it on, well, I don't think that's relevant to who should be with who. It would've been nice to see, but lack of it is no indication of who Kate’d rather be with.
All of this is pretty fruitless I suppose, because you're not gonna change a skater to a jater or vice versa just by writing your opinion or laying out facts. You're going to like who you like with someone, even if you can't rationalize it. But, I think it's fun to discuss, as both sides have pros/cons, I'm learning a lot of new things from it, getting new appreciations for the other side, and it's just fun to defend my ship!
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